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Author Topic: anyone know much about the Raw and Living Food diet?
Snaggy

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Icon 12 posted February 07, 2007 16:37      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Could someone please invent the chlorophyll patch, so we can just make our own food on sunny days? [Razz]
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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2007 17:00      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
The raw food thing, from what I understand, their arguement is that they want to eat living cells, and cooking causes the cells to die, so they don't think that dead cells is healthy. I dunno about that one. However I think that throwing some raw food snacks or sides is a good idea, they do have some very clever and interesting recipes I'd like to try.

lol, steen, you come up with some good ones! [Big Grin] Poison Ivy salad! Immediately it makes me wonder what kinds of antioxidants is in poison ivy, perhaps it is a powerhouse of nutrition! [Razz] There are some stinging nettle enthusiast around here, and I don't know how they handle it! I brushed up against some stinging nettle when I was gardening because I didn't know what it was, and YOW! I had a painful stinging rash for hours! Then I heard people eat it! Or drink it as tea! [Confused]

I don't know how people slurp down raw oysters, I tried it several years ago and did not like it all. We have oyster farms over here and, they stink, and the buldings look filthy and they have horrible looking piles of garbage everywhere, and of course tons of sea gulls pooping everywhere.eeeewwwwwww.

I used to take stinging nettle capsules. They are good during allergy season. For us guys they also keep the prostate healthy. I used to eat raw oysters. In fact we have quite a few oyster farms south of where I live so they are quite fresh. I don't do it anymore because my wife does not want me to do it. I still eat them cooked though.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2007 17:02      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Um, if you don't kill the cells cooking them you kill them digesting them. Just sayin'...

All that aside, raw fruits and veggies make very tasty snacks, and spinach is a great alternative to lettuce in sandwiches. I eat raw fruits and veggies all the time. I also eat cooked veggies (cooked fruit less often...dessert is such a guilt issue for me I rarely do it). Balance. Variety. Keep it mixed. That's the key.

Unfortunately Snaggy, one of the hallmarks of being an animal is you must consume. There's no way around it. What you consume and why is up to you, but you must eat things.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2007 18:12      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitrozac wrote:
There are some stinging nettle enthusiast around here, and I don't know how they handle it! I brushed up against some stinging nettle when I was gardening because I didn't know what it was, and YOW! I had a painful stinging rash for hours! Then I heard people eat it! Or drink it as tea! [Confused]

Apparently if you crush them up and cook them, it destroys the little hairs that penetrate the skin and deliver the toxins cause the sting, so brushing against them is worse than crushing them.

I don't know how people slurp down raw oysters, I tried it several years ago and did not like it all.

I'm with you. I tried them ages ago and nearly threw up. I'd much rather have a salad.

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Mel
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2007 18:51      Profile for Mel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Had raw salmon for dinner last night with some sushi. Raw fish is awesome [Smile]

I heard something though about eating burnt foods being really bad for you though. Can't remember why.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 02:43      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mel:
Had raw salmon for dinner last night with some sushi. Raw fish is awesome [Smile]

I heard something though about eating burnt foods being really bad for you though. Can't remember why.

Eating burnt foods is good for you.* It helps remove toxins from your body.

*unless they still contain the accelrent that burnt them.

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Chesty
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 06:57      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My dogs eat raw food: raw chicken, raw pork, raw beef, raw venison. Sometimes they eat living rabbits and squirrels (slow ones).
Prognosis: Healthy and happy.

I cook my food because human stomachs do not have very good defense against bacteria and worms n'such that live in some meat. If you are going to eat raw meat do like GOD told the Jews 3000 years ago: cloven hoof and chewing cud animals (cow,deer,goat) have the least chance of getting you sick. Of course they need to be butchered well. Modern factory butchering is too sloppy and has the potential to bust a poopload on your meat. If you buy from a market instead of doing your own dressing, cook the outside of steaks well and cook ground meat for a long time at good high temp until at least grey all the way.

Todays veggies can get you sick as well because of fertilization techniques that include spraying Dukey all over the plants. If you buy veggies, cook them. Ask the people who ate the California spinach last fall how their enzymes tasted? "Like crap!"

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 09:02      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
Immediately it makes me wonder what kinds of antioxidants is in poison ivy, perhaps it is a powerhouse of nutrition!

You do know that the beneficial aspects of antioxidants have been challenged as useless, if not actually harmful, right?

New Scientist has an interesting article on it.

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Snaggy

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Icon 12 posted February 08, 2007 09:13      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
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Stereo

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Icon 14 posted February 08, 2007 10:06      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good find, Demo. Very interesting read.

The conclusions?

1)Have a diversified diet so you are not missing any nutrient (thus don't need to take supplements) nor having too much of others. As has been said many times before, it's all about moderation.
2)If you care enough about your health to have such a balanced diet, chances are you take care of it in other domains, leading to a healthy lifestyle all around.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 11:22      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm a big fan of raw living foods
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 13:43      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chesty:
Todays veggies can get you sick as well because of fertilization techniques that include spraying Dukey all over the plants. If you buy veggies, cook them. Ask the people who ate the California spinach last fall how their enzymes tasted? "Like crap!"

Wrong. Most fertilizer used is artificial, and wouldn't contain that type of E.Coli. Even the organic stuff has usually spent a fair amount of time breaking down, and it usually isn't all fecal matter, either. Fertilizer is also generally not sprayed on the plants, but churned into the field.

The last I heard about the spinach breakout, they believe it came from runoff from a nearby cattle ranch, and certainly wasn't sprayed on the plants. Your food is more often contaminated in the kitchen, not the field.

Edit: checked some things after the fact. Raw manure is sometimes used, but if a farm wants to be certified organic, they must compost, which kills most harmful bacteria.

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 13:43      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
About the dukey sprayed spinach last year. Yeah! What was up with that? That got me all a-gripe about how farmers just have to go around spreading shit everywhere like they never heard of e-coli!!! Would eating organic spinach avoid the doo-doo spinach? Do organic growers use manure fertilizer? I hope not.
Looks like I'm going to have to start a veggie garden. Ehh, I don't really want to do that, but... it might be fun.

About dogs eating raw meat; Snaggy's mom had a couple of dogs, she had a house with a hundred acres around it. Queenie, (one of the dogs) loved to hunt, and she would take down huge ground hogs, every once in a while you'd be walking around the yard, and come across that horrible smell of rotting animal. One time I saw Ruff (the other dog), chewing on a carcass of a ground hog and he was holding it down with his front paws, and pulling off a bite.... that's when I noticed it was pulsing with maggots. Maggots were spilling everywhere. I freaked out, gagged, had to focus on not puking. Unfortunately that image exists in my memory. Enjoy.

Here's a very good article about Mad Cow in Canada;

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/madcow/index.html

Here's my favorite part:
"A month after Canada's first case of BSE, a panel of experts recommended that the parts of the cow that can pass on BSE, such as the brain and spine should be kept out of all animal feed. That's policy in most European countries."

"It's a recommendation that has met stiff resistance in the beef industry. Including rendered cattle parts in feed means disposing of heads and intestines can make money for cattle farmers instead of costing them money"

Are cattle farmers that stupid, or that greedy? /me does Charlie Brown's "ARGGGGGGH!"

Uh, oh, I guess this should be in the Vegan thread, oh well! [Big Grin] [Razz]

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 14:05      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Would eating organic spinach avoid the doo-doo spinach? Do organic growers use manure fertilizer? I hope not.
What would you like your veggies fertilized with? You need to give plants nutrients for them to grow. This is usually dead stuff or animal waste (circle of life - all the goodness gets re-cycled).
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 14:22      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitro, the initial cases of E. coli in the spinach outbreak were linked to tainted ORGANIC spinach.

Washing veggies with Bacto-stop might help.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 20:37      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
my $o.o2

I think usig manure to fetalize crops is a great idea. Man has been doing this for thousands of years. It is much better than using energy intesive man made fertilizers and cow manure produces very healthy vegitable plantsbcompared to store bought fertilizers. Over here our organic standard is called "bio". It actually has stricter regulations than "organic". Manure and compost are the only legal fertilizer for "bio".

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 20:57      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Fertilizing crops with manure from cows whose guts have been colonized by E. coli 01H57 is. Not. A. Good. Idea.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2007 21:57      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Manure is supposed to be composted prior to being applied to the crop. Composting allows the bacterial population of the, er, soil to become more like that of the dirt in which the plants are already growing. Fertilizing with manure is better for the soil than using ammonia because the plant fibers and other organic materials within the cow poopoo help renew the soil. Soils fertilized only with ammonia-based fertilizer become less fertile over time and support much less microbiological diversity (and that's important stuff). You also begin to lose top-soil when ammonia-based fertilizers are your only ammendment.

Using the cow-crap was not their mistake. Using improperly aged cow-dung was the problem. Another source of contamination can be cow-flops dropped in the irrigation water by cows as it flows toward the crops. Good farmers understand that they must keep the slow-elk far from water that will be used for things lest people become ill. Unfortunately, organic foods are a pretty new concept and not all well-meaning but otherwise ignorant farmers are up to speed yet. Let's not throw the organic foods out with the cow water.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2007 00:31      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You are right Spastic, I should have mentioned that the farmers here compost thier manure with straw for a year before they use it.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2007 08:45      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The cause of the spinach contamination was not fertilizer. From one of the reports on the E.Coli. outbreak:

quote:
It's unclear how the contaminated fecal matter could have been transported to the field, but investigators are not ruling anything out. It could have been wandering livestock, substandard worker hygiene, irrigation practices or even wild boar, officials said.
http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=535506

Note that fertilizer was not listed as a possible cause. Also note that a number of these scenarios could happen even in your own backyard garden. Our food continues to be relatively safe, but there are no guarantees.

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2007 08:58      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
Note that fertilizer was not listed as a possible cause. Also note that a number of these scenarios could happen even in your own backyard garden. Our food continues to be relatively safe, but there are no guarantees.

Agreed. And let's not forget that bird's poo isn't safe either. How are you going to protect against that? You're left to green-house grown vegetables and fruits, which means a small subset of the variety offering, and they usually cost more too. (Although, for areas of the world with a freezing winter, they become a viable alternative to their imported, outside grown counterparts.)

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2007 09:52      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
virologist in da house!

raw oysters and other raw filtering seafood are the most common causes of hepatitis A.

On another note: those saying that properly composted manure is safe are correct. Not only does fermentation kill off most of the bacteria, but being exposed to the elements makes it hard for ETEC and EHEC* to grow, which is why most composting is done outdoors.

Its also why calf hutches in dairies are set out in the sun for days rather than bleached. The elements do a damn good job of killing off unfavorable bacteria. Its when you go indoors that you get the nasty bugs.

* Eterotoxic and Enterohemorrhagic E. coli

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Nitrozac

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Icon 4 posted February 09, 2007 12:09      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whoa! I just realized, as a vegan who wants to eat food that has 0% to do with animals and animal products, non-organic grown foods would be a no-no, as it uses the cattle industries waste products. I never looked at it that way. I did have a nagging supsicion tho.

Some organic growers around here may use sea kelp as fertilizer. I'm not very cool with that, because I think that kelp on the shore serves some sort of purpose we're not aware of, likely, and may harm delicately balanced eco-systems. Also, they are very likely to gather insects and tiny sea creatures along with the kelp and they'd be killed. needlessly.

Compost is a really great for fertilizer. I don't compost here tho, because the smell of the rotting food attracts mice, rats, racoons, and bears. We do get bears here, in the backyard we found a large bear scat by the pear tree. Kinda cool to think a bear was just outside! I also stopped putting out bird food and a bird bath for the same reasons, and I so loved to watch the birds come to the feeders. Unfortunately it also attracted cats who would stalk the birds and kill them, I didn't like that at all. Yes, NitroKitty is strictly indoors and is as happy as can be. I didn't want her to be out killing the birds.

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ARJ
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2007 18:31      Profile for ARJ   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
There are some stinging nettle enthusiast around here, and I don't know how they handle it! I brushed up against some stinging nettle when I was gardening because I didn't know what it was, and YOW! I had a painful stinging rash for hours! Then I heard people eat it! Or drink it as tea! [Confused]

Too the best of my knowledge, stinging nettle does not cause an allergic reaction the way that poison oak or ivy do. The sting comes from the tiny little hairy spines (a lot like cactus spines) that get in under the skin & irritate it. Nettle is a traditional food & supposedly quite nutritious. When you prepare it, you do have to be careful & use gloves, but once it's prepared/cooked it doesn't sting anymore. Nettle soup is supposed to be quite tasty (I have never tried it).

You can also use nettle for fibre! I haven't spun it yet either.

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Warren Ellis: Yes. Because MAN COOK MEAT WITH FIRE UNTIL IT NO CRY ANY MORE THEN EAT IT DEAD

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2007 23:38      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<dung-trivia>
Manure used to be the main source of saltpetre, one of the ingredients of gunpowder.

The process used to require building a huge dung-heap, keeping it moist with urine for a year or so, then either sifting through the heap for naturally-occurring crystals, or (more recently) processing the resulting mess in a huge still.

And you think your job stinks...
</dung-trivia>

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