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» The Geek Culture Forums!   » Love!   » Girls, Girls, Girls!   » Pretty or Smart (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Pretty or Smart
boo
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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 10:45      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is one better than the other? A comment Stereo made in the thread about Geek men and feminists sparked this question.

Are certain endowments, abilities, etc. inherently better than others? For instance, if a woman can only be one or the other, is being smart better than being pretty? If so, why?

Here is the original post, so you can see the context. It is on page six if you want to see it in relation to the rest of the thread.

quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
quote:
Originally posted by hecateluna:
Also, with regard to thin models: My limited experience with sewing leads me to believe it may be easier to design and sew clothes for thinner people. (Straight lines are easier to sew--and women who are so thin they've lost most of their breast tissue? Lots of straight lines.) So maybe designers are just lazy bastards. (Or want to put their energy into lots of other crazy stuff instead of, you know, tailoring properly.)

I'll have to disagree. Specially on the designers not wanting to waste time on sewing curves. Firstly, when they get to the point they can hire top-models, they usually have a lot of people to do the actual sewing, while the designer do the design and choose the fabric. (Ok, some of them may still sew to some extent.) Secondly, if it was so, why would they design so many crazy garments with superposition and over-the-top shapes? If they thought sewing was a waste of time, they'd stick with simple lines. Plus, as I sew quite a lot, let me assure you that armholes/sleeves and necklines are a lot harder to sew than any bust-fitting lines.

DM: unless you've read it somewhere else, I'm the one who floated the idea of having so-thin-they-are-ugly models to insist on the dress rather than the girl. Not that I really believe it, as I know some people like girls this way. I'd rather believe they have some kind of fetishism on underage girls - no breasts, no body hair...

As for women being the ones influencing other women to "look good", let's say it this way: I doubth it's the father that insists his daughter wears make-up before going out. It's the mothers and school friends who will push a girl to care about how they look, and it's the older "cool" girls who will be a girl's first role model. And it's going worse. With the hypersexualized actresses and popular singers, what kind of role models do the little girls look upon? Not the smart ones in the lab, not the strong ones doing sports, not even the teacher in front of the classe. The first ones they may see once on carreer day, the second a minute or two every other week on the news - if they listen to the news - and the last are the b*tches that give them hard time at school. [frustration cry]I want actresses that look like real woman, show some brain power, and still are a major character![/frustration cry]

(Totally aside: Xanthine, you may want to check your keyboard. Your "e" key seems to have problems.)

I am tempted to ask, "Which would you rather be?" but that's a whole other discussion. [Big Grin]
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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 11:55      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'd rather be smart than pretty, and for a mate (potential or otherwise) smart hands down.

I'm actually pretty lucky - my wife is both [Big Grin]

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 12:12      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Smart = pretty

A Conversation can stimulate me more then looks.

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 12:13      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Without a doubt, I'd rather be smart. If I was pretty instead, I would have left an attractive corpse long ago.

Oh, and boo: delete some old PMs. I can't reply to the two you've sent me because you've hit the limit of 60.

I'm getting the videos for you now.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 12:35      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It depends what stage in your life you're talking about.

As a teenager, the good-looking-but-dumb crowd were having a much better time than I was. I'd have happily traded a few brain cells for some of that sex and drugs and rock and roll.

These days, those people are probably spending their days asking "would you like fries with that sir", while I get to play with fun new technology and make 3 or 4 times what they do.

Of course, some people manage to be both good looking and clever, I married one.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Reedius
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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 12:42      Profile for Reedius     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is a difficult question because i don't see myself loving a girl that isn't at least physically normal but as they say that prettyness depends on everyone of us then smartness wins but in today's reality prettyness isn't(in almost all cases) something you define by yourself, it's something you get defined for you by the media, other people, etc.
On the other hand i personally would rather be smart than pretty because women don't care much about looks than men when it's about choosing a partner and that gives physically normal guys a fair chance to find a girl.

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Geek or Nerd?

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 15, 2007 12:55      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pretty fades with time, or changes so that it no longer conforms to the standard. You can make a living off pretty, but only until the standards change, or you change away from the standard, or people get tired of you and your over-exposed face. Of course, you could become a kept woman or kept man, but, once again, you can only hold onto that as long as whover's keping you thinks you're pretty, and, like I said, prettiness fades/changes. Smart, OTOH, sticks around. You'll still be smart long after you've stopped being pretty (unless somthing really tragic happens to your brain. Also, you can make a living off of smart that's much more stable and less subject to changes in fashion and tast and you can achieve a great degree of independence with your own two hands.

Given that I value my independence and I'm planning to live for a good long time, I'd rather take the option I can keep. So I go for smart. If that's a disadvantage in the mating game then fsck the mating game.

If you're talking about choosing partners, same thing. I'd take smart over pretty, bcause I'd rather be able to have conversations and adventures than just look at him.

That said, the two really aren't mutually exclusive. But what happens is you only have so much energy to focus on any given thing, so people end up choosing what parts of themselves they'll improve. And I chose that part that will always be with me, no matter how old I get, how many times I smash my face up, how many times I chew my nails off, sunburn my lips off, re-establish that asphalt and cement are abrasive and rocks have sharp edges, and so on. I do care about how I prsent myslf - sort of. I want to be takn seriously, so when I giv a talk or somthing I dress up, and when there's a dress code I comply. However, I go for either elegant or professional, depending on the situation. Never sexy, and on a normal day I'm actually pretty damn scruffy (clean, but scruffy). I work in a lab. There's no point in wearing anything nice.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted March 16, 2007 15:29      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
I work in a lab. There's no point in wearing anything nice.

I need to use that somewhere... probably outside of the lab, too [Smile]

As Xanthine said, smart is a more permanent state than pretty.

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boo
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted March 19, 2007 17:54      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Metasquares:
As Xanthine said, smart is a more permanent state than pretty.

But is it? And is that a good enough reason, anyway?

Lots of people (most, in fact) become forgetful as they age. Some wind up with dementia or Alzheimer's. But that's not really the point, though I didn't really explain it well enough, to begin with.

What I was really wondering was, are some endowments just naturally "better" than others? In this case, I asked about pretty vs smart. But it could just as easily be dancing vs singing or athletic ability vs math skills. My point is that everybody has something. A lucky few get lots of endowments. They're handsome, talented and intelligent all at once. But lots of people have one main strength. If that one main strength is, say, musical ability, is that necessarily better or worse than good looks or above average intelligence? And who's to say?

At *this* board, I would expect to get answers like I did, "I'd prefer to be smart than pretty." (even though I didn't ask that question
[Razz] ) But I'm sure there are plenty of other boards where the same question would illicit much different responses.

And ultimately, what is it that we all want, anyway? What does being pretty get you? Or being intelligent? And does whatever you have, get you what you want? If you want to be happy, find love, have a family, does being intelligent get you that better than being pretty? Or is it the other way around?

The reason I posted the original question was because I hoped people would see that many of these things (though not all, because some can be cultivated and strengthened through personal perseverance) are things that were given to us. A person is born pretty or with a high i.q. or a natural singing talent. So what's the point of getting all high and mighty about how smart one is or how pretty one is. It's not like you did it for yourself, anyway. And for some people, their good looks will be their only valuable endowment.

It's tempting to say being smart is better than being pretty, but good looks can take a person very far in life.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 19, 2007 20:32      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay. I'm not sure being pretty is necessarily better than being smart. I don't think the two are even mutually exclusive - I know plenty of men and women who are both pretty and smart. Some are even athletic as well. However, a gaggle of geeks is more likely to value what's going on inside someone's head over what's going on on the surface of their head. You predicted this result - why be distressed about it? I for one love it when I get the results I predict. [Razz]

You have what talents you have. I believe that it is your duty to use those talents to make the world better. Letting your intellectual abilities rot, in a world as fscked up as this one, in favor of a pretty face and greater social acceptance is selfish. If I were religious, I'd even call it sinful. But that is my belief, and I am aware that not everyone shares that belief.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted March 19, 2007 20:33      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My pretty isn't the same as other peoples' pretty. I've found that pretty, for me, can't be considered without smart. Vacant eyes =/= pretty eyes. The eyes make the face. If you're not smart, you're fugly.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 19, 2007 20:41      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dp
sorry
[Frown]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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boo
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted March 19, 2007 20:50      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Okay. I'm not sure being pretty is necessarily better than being smart. I don't think the two are even mutually exclusive - I know plenty of men and women who are both pretty and smart. Some are even athletic as well. However, a gaggle of geeks is more likely to value what's going on inside someone's head over what's going on on the surface of their head. You predicted this result - why be distressed about it? I for one love it when I get the results I predict. [Razz]

You have what talents you have. I believe that it is your duty to use those talents to make the world better. Letting your intellectual abilities rot, in a world as fscked up as this one, in favor of a pretty face and greater social acceptance is selfish. If I were religious, I'd even call it sinful. But that is my belief, and I am aware that not everyone shares that belief.

No, I'm not saying it's "better." I'm simply raising the question is "smart" necessarily better? Personally, I think they're just different. Any given person may choose one over the other, given a choice, and for whatever reasons they may have. And their choice may be the best one, for their life and situation. That's all.

You're not the first to imply that pretty people concern themselves soley with their looks. Stereo did as well and I think someone else may have too. [Confused] I find that puzzling.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 19, 2007 21:07      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whether smart or pretty is better depends entirely on the situation.

If you're trying to figure out your taxes, pretty doesn't really do anything for you, but being smart does. If you're trying to become a famous TV star, being pretty will get you a lot farther than being smart.

Simple, really.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted March 20, 2007 08:10      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have found that beauty and intelligence are not necessarily two different things, and certainly aren't the only things that matter, either. In my experience, a person can become more (or less) beautiful as they show their inner qualities. A person who relies solely on their appearance can only go downhill from there, but a truly beautiful person will just get better.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 20, 2007 08:32      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Intelligence trumps all.

I got lucky. My wife's hot and intelligent.

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skinfaxi
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Icon 1 posted March 20, 2007 09:18      Profile for skinfaxi         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You are making a false distinction of "smart" vs "pretty." Why? To get people to put down "pretty"?

Why don't you first define:

What/who is pretty? Who decides? You?

What/who is smart? Who decides? You?

And why on earth do you think someone has to be one or the other (or either?)

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 20, 2007 11:53      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skinfaxi:
What/who is pretty? Who decides?

A computer of course [Wink]

--------------------
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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted March 20, 2007 12:13      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
A computer of course [Wink]

That is really disturbing TFD.

2 guys can look at the same girl and one might think she is sexy as all get out and the other one may not even take a second look.

It's all in the eyes of the beholder ...... Or was that beer holder?

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boo
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted March 20, 2007 20:51      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by skinfaxi:
What/who is pretty? Who decides?

A computer of course [Wink]
My b/f roomed with a surgical resident while at college. The guy was going in to plastic surgery and he did say that they use all these measurements that generally determine if a face is considered 'pleasing' or not. It has to do with proportions and symmetry, (if memory serves) I think they divide the face into a grid or lines or something and see if things are proportionate. I don't remember, exactly, but what I do remember because I thought it was interesting, was that there *is* an overall agreement on what is considered attractive and unattractive. Like MacD said, different strokes for different folks, but apparently there is a certain amount of consensus.
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted March 21, 2007 05:34      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Pretty" always has undertones of dull to me, and "smart" also has a limited meaning. What I find physically attractive has as much to do with a twinkle in the eye as any particular type of woman.

Similarly what I like as far as intelligence is more like a number of talents. I am attracted to women who make me laugh, and are talented in any area such as music or the visual arts that are a mystery to me.

I don't really mind if they are clever or not in those areas where my humble talents reside, though I suspect that someone much cleverer than me, and a much better cook might leave me feeling slightly useless, and I might also feel a bit scared of her! In other words I think complementary rather than competitive gifts work best, and that way you have more chance of continuing to surprise and interest one another in the long term.

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davor
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Icon 1 posted March 21, 2007 12:21      Profile for davor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Smart, beauty fades [Geek]

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted March 21, 2007 16:13      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WinterSolstice:
I'd rather be smart than pretty, and for a mate (potential or otherwise) smart hands down.

I'm actually pretty lucky - my wife is both [Big Grin]

[blush]

thank you. [hearts]

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LemonSmuggler
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Icon 1 posted March 23, 2007 21:32      Profile for LemonSmuggler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it's rather despairing to say someone can't be both attractive and intelligent. I've met many wonderful people who are both smart and beautiful. The two do not exclude one another. Beauty is not a bad thing. Being attracted to someone who is beautiful is not a bad thing. Humans love beautiful things. Weather they be simple objects that appeal to our eye, or that of the physical beauty of the human body.
And as for this topic, the comments about beauty fading and anyone finding a model lovely having to be mental, I’d have to chalk it all up to jealously. You simply have too much time if you spend your days contemplating and comparing yourself to another person. There will always be someone smarter, prettier, nicer, meaner, uglier, dumber, more funny, more serious, more whatever, then you.
And jealously, be the person physically beautiful or not, is always ugly, no matter what the person looks like.

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Oy to the vey.

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boo
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted March 23, 2007 22:01      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonSmuggler:
I think it's rather despairing to say someone can't be both attractive and intelligent. I've met many wonderful people who are both smart and beautiful. The two do not exclude one another. Beauty is not a bad thing.

I agree. And though some may have harped a bit on the 'beauty is nothing without brains,' point, that had nothing to do with my original question. Which, I thought was pretty clear.
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