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Author Topic: Why are women so difficult?
BooBooKitty

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Icon 1 posted March 27, 2007 04:48      Profile for BooBooKitty     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
Well first off it's not one that I'm talking about, it's four.

*snip!*

Hope that explains why I posted this thread.

Gack! What a complex web you've got woven there. [Razz]
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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted March 27, 2007 09:01      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Men and women aren't that different deep down socially (obviously some rather salient physical differences exist). We just receive different training. The social differences are mostly differences in role playing. No stereotypes on either side hold up whatsoever in the real world. Both genders can be illogical, over-emotional, underhanded, manipulative, understanding, empathetic, amazing. I think when people ask questions like the one that started this thread they're projecting their personal problem onto the entire gender. Women do it too. It's like saying "This painting I'm making sucks. But painting sucks anyway, so why bother?" It's a purely human reaction, and it's okay as long as you realize what it is and what it isn't.

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Ed Womack
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boo
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Icon 1 posted March 27, 2007 19:38      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Reedius:
Men are logical beings, women are illogical and confusing and do things using their feelings and not their brains, it's weird and it is complicated and even they don't know this.

That's the problem with men. You make all your decisions based on your logic. [Razz] You should try doing things based on feelings more often.

quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
And the next time I hear the hormone/pms excuse for a woman being bitchy, I'm going to explode, and then there'll be little pieces of nwnfbrain all over my roommate's stuff.

1) Prepare to expire.

Or

2) Get used to it.
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
Well first off it's not one that I'm talking about, it's four.

Just to keep names private we will lable them in order of appearence and give them a designation of W1-W4.

W1: I have known this girl for about a decade and a half. Since high school. Reacently she found my Myspace page and we started talking again. She admited to me that she had a huge crush on me since we went to school together. I found this strange since I took her best friend to prom and was totally unaware of this crush she had on me. Then it gets funny. We found out we lived a block away from each other. So we decide to take a walk and go to a bar for a couple drinks. She then moves to Hudson WI. It's about 45 minutes away. We still talk but it's hard to go out with the distence and that I have givin up driving.

W2: I eloped with this girl. We are still legaly married and have spent a lot of time together. But there was a reason for the seperation. She has been calling me more often and we have been hanging out more often. And last week I took her out on a date.

W3: This girl is really pyscho and I can't seem to get rid of her. I get about 10 emails a day and about twice as many txt's on my phone. I have unlimited txt on my phone so it's not that big of a deal just annoying. She also just calls a lot. I can't find a polite way to get rid of her.

W4: This girl and I have gone out a couple times. We are both single parents so the kids tag a long. And it just seem like it could not go very far with the lack of time for each other. And it's really hard for 2 single parents to date. Both of you getting a sitter at the same time is not the easiest thing.

Hope that explains why I posted this thread.

???

Number 1 is difficult because she moved and you have given up driving?
Yup .. that's all her.

Number 2 is difficult because you decided to separate, but you took her on a date last week.
Yup .. that's all her.

Number 3 IS more than difficult. Dude, she's a stalker. Seriously, call the police.
Yup .. that IS all her.

Number 4 is difficult because she's a single mom and has sitter issues.
Yup .. that's all her.

[Roll Eyes]

Dude, it doesn't sound like the women are all that difficult (except #3) And notice how you are involved in each of these problems, yourself? Doesn't sound very logical to me. [Big Grin]

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted March 27, 2007 20:05      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boo:

quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
And the next time I hear the hormone/pms excuse for a woman being bitchy, I'm going to explode, and then there'll be little pieces of nwnfbrain all over my roommate's stuff.

1) Prepare to expire.

Or

2) Get used to it.

No. The only things that justify bitchiness are externally observable, so when women use that excuse as a catch-all, it makes women look less respectable in general and demeans those who truly do have certain problems with their bodies.

Women may continue to do this, but they can't expect to continue being friends with me if they do. It's stupid and juvenile, and I refuse to be involved.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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boo
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2007 20:01      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No Nerd, you're reacting as though pms is fiction. It's not. I would agree that there are probably some women who use it as an excuse too often, and that's not right. But it IS real. Not all women are afflicted, though. So if you happen to have a mother or sisters who don't suffer from pms, you might be likely to think other women are making it up. But that would be a very shortsighted thing to do and you're not shortsighted.

It's your prerogative to be friends with whom you choose, but I hope you won't be tossing too many friends aside, just for this issue.

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LemonSmuggler
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2007 00:53      Profile for LemonSmuggler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boo:
No Nerd, you're reacting as though pms is fiction. It's not. I would agree that there are probably some women who use it as an excuse too often, and that's not right. But it IS real. Not all women are afflicted, though. So if you happen to have a mother or sisters who don't suffer from pms, you might be likely to think other women are making it up. But that would be a very shortsighted thing to do and you're not shortsighted.

It's your prerogative to be friends with whom you choose, but I hope you won't be tossing too many friends aside, just for this issue.

I totally agree with everything you just said. And I would like to submit as proof, everyone woman on my mothers side of the family tree. It's not just the hormons, but the striking pain the takes hold of your body for a total week. For a whole week when you have things to do, you can't do anything but lay in bed, in the shower, in a hot tub and pray to God that the pain goes away. [shake head]

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Oy to the vey.

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Stibbons
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2007 03:06      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"If I felt sorry for myself five days every month, this hosptal would be up the creek, sans paddle" [Wink] (though I think the follow up line is a classic)

In reality nwnf, PMS can hit some women pretty hard. Unfortunately, that seems to involve all the women I'm close to... [ohwell] If your experience with women so far has not included anyone who suffers horribly then you're a lucky sod! Though I do agree, a few women use it as an excuse, but it's best not to say that to a girl in case it isn't just an excuse and they rip your head off then stuff it places where your head is just not meant to go [Wink]

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2007 08:45      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Mother Spastic and Sibling Spastic both claim that partaking of medicinal marijuanna can help with menstration-related discomfort. I couldn't confirm their assertion as I'm not properly equipped... Worth a shot for those without objections to the drug who similarly suffer perhaps.

(ScholasticSpastic and his family do not neccessarily endorse the use of illegal substances)

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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boo
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Icon 1 posted April 01, 2007 17:32      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stibbons:
"If I felt sorry for myself five days every month, this hosptal would be up the creek, sans paddle" [Wink] (though I think the follow up line is a classic)

In reality nwnf, PMS can hit some women pretty hard. Unfortunately, that seems to involve all the women I'm close to... [ohwell] If your experience with women so far has not included anyone who suffers horribly then you're a lucky sod! Though I do agree, a few women use it as an excuse, but it's best not to say that to a girl in case it isn't just an excuse and they rip your little head off then stuff it places where your bestest little friend is just not meant to go [Wink]

Words in bold added by me. [Big Grin]
Sorry, Stibbons. Just wanted to make sure he got the point.

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted April 01, 2007 18:30      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
Mother Spastic and Sibling Spastic both claim that partaking of medicinal marijuanna can help with menstration-related discomfort.

"Weather you suffer form Glaucoma or you just rented The Matrix, medical marijuana can make things great!.... medically." -- Homer J. Simpson

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get rich and you still die"


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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2007 03:38      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Erm, how likely is it that you would enter into situations like yours with men in the first place?

You could be a raging bisexual for all I know, but seeing as your troubles seem female-centred, I'm assuming not.

Therefore, negative situations involving solely women are the only kind that can ever come up. You won't ever be able to compare it to how men behave.

And trust me, you menfolk can be just as crazy.

Why? Because people are people and some are crazy and some are not. I haven't found *anything* to convince me even a teeny little bit that it's anything to do with sex/gender.

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 18:16      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
nwnf: I never use PMS as an excuse. I am a royal frakking bitch all of the time. Luckily, I found someone who was willing to look past his own nose to see that there is a good woman beneath, one who would die if it would save his life.

Sorry you can't find a girl like that. Or maybe you have, but you're not a man willing to die to save her life in return.

That said, I'm sorry you're having "women troubles". Perhaps if you focus less on your loneliness and more on your child, you might find the answer within yourself.

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 21:46      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Just_Jess_B:
nwnf: I never use PMS as an excuse. I am a royal frakking bitch all of the time. Luckily, I found someone who was willing to look past his own nose to see that there is a good woman beneath, one who would die if it would save his life.

Sorry you can't find a girl like that. Or maybe you have, but you're not a man willing to die to save her life in return.

I can't figure out if that's an insult or not, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that it is not.


It just seems like a really shallow excuse that people let women get away with using. The football players and women's basketball players here have started their spring conditioning; they are often so sore that they can barely hobble down the hallway or lift their arms above their heads; but they never use it as an excuse to be an ass to someone.


The reason I say what I've been saying is that using PMS as an excuse to be mean to someone seems fairly weak. It's like, you want to be mean to someone, but you don't really have a reason, so you invent this excuse because you don't have, for lack of a better term, the 'balls' to straight up tell this person that you have ill feelings towards them. And I just don't like that kind of personality.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 05:18      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, football and basketball players train for that kind of thing. And choose to do so. Can't really compare.

I'm not defending the women that use it for an excuse either, but there are varying levels of pain that it can attack you with.

Having stabbing pains and sickness and back ache... No, on the days I get that shit, I'm not inclined to be so super-nice to people.

And that's not restricted to PMS, but whenever I'm in pain. I get a migraine: I'm a bitch. I smack my hand on the doorframe: Not so friendly. Once again, that's exactly like guys, because it's a people thing, not a woman thing. You stub your toe in the dark and someone asks if you're okay when they can hear you hissing and cursing then they're unlikely to get a "thanks awfully for enquiring, love, I just had a bit of an encounter with the cupboard door, but the bleeding seems to be stopping as I hop round the room, I'll be back to bed in a bit." [Razz]

I'd like to think it's not actually taking it out on people, but being more easily provoked by fools or foolish comments. Some asshat makes some stupid comment most days, I can deal with that and ignore. But if I'm in pain - any kind of pain - I'm much more likely to engage and snap.

quote:
Both genders can be illogical, over-emotional, underhanded, manipulative, understanding, empathetic, amazing. I think when people ask questions like the one that started this thread they're projecting their personal problem onto the entire gender.
I'm liking this comment, by the way. Sums up what I think pretty neatly. [thumbsup]

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 07:46      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
It just seems like a really shallow excuse that people let women get away with using.

IIRC - Mark Twain may have nailed this one for you: "women behave once a month how men behave all the time"

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 10:18      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WinterSolstice:
IIRC - Mark Twain may have nailed this one for you: "women behave once a month how men behave all the time"

No, that is not the sentiment I am trying to express. Just because it's semi-witty and self-deprecating does not make it correct.

Spoongirl: maybe I just have a different idea of what kind of pain is acceptable to put someone in a 'bad' mood. Generally: if you can walk, you can't bitch. Also, I totally understand if you get bitchy when somebody repeatedly does something that you've already established is annoying- for example, repeatedly asking you if you want to go for a run or do some sit-ups or something while you have cramps, when the answer is an obvious NO. Or wanting to engage in a beer-can-crushing-competition using your head when you have a migraine- obviously not a good idea.

But when somebody comes home and says, "Hey hon, how as work", or "Do you want to go out and get something to eat?" and the answer is dripping with liquid bitchiness, there's no excuse for that. Sometimes people just want to be mean to other people, and for the most part that's okay- there's a reason the Gods have given us the ability to brawl- but when people need to justify their behaviour so they don't feel as guilty, well, I take issues with that.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 10:37      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Clearly you're just looking for a reason/place to vent, so have at it. You've received empathy, sympathy, humor, and rather detailed explanations.

Apparently you're aiming to join boo in the "why don't people tell me what I want to hear" club.

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 10:51      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WinterSolstice:
Clearly you're just looking for a reason/place to vent, so have at it. You've received empathy, sympathy, humor, and rather detailed explanations.

Apparently you're aiming to join boo in the "why don't people tell me what I want to hear" club.

Clearly. Or maybe I think people are misinterpreting what I'm trying to say because they think they've already heard it. Whatever though, apparently women are too holy to criticize, so I'm an evil asshole when I say things that I observe to be true. I think I can live with that, though.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 11:36      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok, so let's start from scratch and take a look at what the PMS is: about a week before a women's menses, there is a change in hormone level in the body - thus the brain, too - indicating that the woman isn't pregnant and the uterus has to prepare for another cycle. The scale and length of that change varies from woman to woman, and so does the effect. For some, it's almost like any other day. For others, there are severe migraines. In between, you find cramps, simple headaches, or general uneasiness. The mood can be stable, like some women will feel more like cuddling, or won't stand being touched or talked to those days; while others will suffer from the emotional "round robin". Also note that stress will amplify the effects of the hormonal changes. (So if a woman is PMSing and had a bad day at work, better be extra carefull. Or out of the house.)

So PMS can be an excuse for being bitchy, as it's not only pain, but hormonal imbalance - which means the brain may not react as normal. But yes, some abuse it, like any other excuse. In any case, please remember that's something that cannot be fully * controled, and unless you have proof that the woman using it isn't really suffering from it, just say "sorry" and stay away.

I doubt a man could really understand what it is like. The best I can do is this comparison: teenage is to life what PMS is to a woman's cycle - a period of hormonal imbalance that is not felt the same by everyone. So if you can't live with it, better look for post-menopaused women.

(Little related fact: it's no surprise the word hysteric was used to describe someone who "lost one's marbles", as it is a derivative from uterus. Obviously, you're not the first one to notice women's altered behaviour at that period of the month! [evil] )

* Edited: "fully" added following Xanthine's valid point. Although some do make an effort to control the mood swings (yes, sport is a way, other will indulge into chocolate, or other substances, or just try to avoid any confrontational situations), others won't. Just as some men feel the need to make everyone miserable when they do, so do some women.

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 8 posted April 04, 2007 11:48      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<diffficult woman>

True. True?!

No, no, no, no, no. It's your vision of what is there twisted through a screen. Those four women would make four other men perfectly content (even the stalker chick, whose need for love can be sated if she finds a man she can actually trust).

You, sir, are a malcontent by choice, therefore lonely by choice. Women are not too holy too touch on, but you have to take responsibility that perhaps your approach is the greatest factor -- NOT THE WOMEN!

Sorry if my husband is right and it hurt your widdle feelings to the point of false self-deprication (you do not consider yourself evil or an asshole, so don't play victim for the mini-violins, sweetheart). You are out here to whine that "the world done you wrong". Well know what? No, it didn't.

Some people have nothing, have no one. Some people are seriously ill and dying. Some people live in the gutters in the snow. Some people do that in third world countries, which makes it worse. You have a computer, a family, and even people who were ready to give you the support and sane advice (including help from people who aren't emotionally invested in the situation). Yes, it's cynical. Of course it's cynical! Everyone here is either a cynic or just plain dissatisfied with the world!

You just want something you can't have. If you made a list of "the perfect woman", and this woman entered her life, she still wouldn't be right.

Also, you trolled for this with the subject line "Why are women so difficult?"

Why am I difficult? Because men like you freaking trashed my life before I met my husband! He has had to sweep up after men like you for our whole relationship. You don't like what he says? Too freaking bad. He's right, and that, friend, is more true than your complaint that women don't get slashed apart.

That said, most women need to be less shallow about money and looks. There is such a thing as "Too Many Shoes" and "antique" is not a verb which should be made into a gerund. Shopping as a pastime for things one does not need or will never use is insanity, not intelligence.
</difficult woman>

WS: I'm baking bread for tonight's dinner. Should I make a second rack of baguettes so you can have a sub sandwich tomorrow?

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 11:57      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I try to keep some kind of control over myself while PMSing. Usually I succeed. Sometimes I don't, but I try to fly off the handle all by myself when no one has to watch. And sometimes, when I fly off the handle, it's not PMS at all, and I know this because it would be physically impossible for PMS to be occurring at the time (and wow, when I'm upset for non-hormonal reasons, and someone tries to write my emotions off as PMS, I get mad...really mad). I've found that exercise is the great cure-all for me - the more I exercise in any given month, the less cramping and moodiness I experience when the time comes. Maybe endorphins counteract hormones or something. I don't know.

I blame being a grad student for most of my moodiness. It's not even that flimsy of an excuse.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 13:09      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, sorry about the rant. I'm not deleting it, but I understand the frustration of men being as diffficult as women though in their own way.

It's an emotional content thing, and it's also more about fear of taking risks than actually difficult people. It's not about the women as much as the worry that those women will hurt you like people have consistently throughout your life (even the nice ones).

Attacking you didn't help the problem and it never will, even in defense of my husband's statement. While he is right in that complaining about something one cannot change (other people) in contrast to something one can change is always fruitless, it doesn't make it easier to take the first step toward that.

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 14:46      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
So PMS can be an excuse for being bitchy, as it's not only pain, but hormonal imbalance - which means the brain may not react as normal. But yes, some abuse it, like any other excuse...

...I doubt a man could really understand what it is like.

Actually, I can.

The anti-malarial I was on in Africa, Larium, has known mood-altering effects, and can cause full-blown psychotic episodes in a small percentage of users. It's a once-a-week tablet, and it was quite noticable that the people on Larium were PMSing the day before their Larium was due.

It was quite scary, I used to wake up in the middle of the night angry, not angry about anything, just angry. One night, someone offered me a coffee, I asked for it black, and she brought one with (powdered) milk in it. I WAS FSCKING FURIOUS !!!! I sat there for the next hour, seething with anger at someone I quite liked, who'd made a simple mistake while trying to do me a favour. I just kept saying to myself "Druid, it's only a cup of coffee".

Some kept their irrational anger to themselves, others used 'Larium Day' as an excuse to vent all the inevitable frustrations of travelling in uncomfortable conditions with the same people for 3 months.

So, now I understand what PMSing women are going through, but it doesn't make it any easier to take the abuse.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 15:02      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And that is why I didn't take Larium on my trip this past winter. It was only a couple weeks, and I really didn't need something that had psycho side effects in my system when I was going to be up on a mountain and around my family. Altitude does enough bizarre things to my dreams - I didn't need a pill to help me along. So I took Malarone instead.

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 18:30      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Actually, I can.

The anti-malarial I was on in Africa, Larium, has known mood-altering effects, and can cause full-blown psychotic episodes in a small percentage of users. It's a once-a-week tablet, and it was quite noticable that the people on Larium were PMSing the day before their Larium was due.

I stand corrected. So there is a way for a man to know what it's like. Although I would never suggest someone to try it just to know what it's like. I'm not that cruel. [Wink]

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