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Author Topic: The wonderful world of stupid
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 25, 2010 10:20      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We have had two more classic examples of stupid this week, Sarah Palin urging the US to support it's ally North Korea, and this fabulous demolition of the climate change myths, so I was interested to read this. I don't think the Internet and personal computers are quite as important as she thinks, or we would be getting more of this all over the world, so there are circumstances particular to the US too. But I do believe that the highly effective use of the Internet by the US right to spread fear, disinformation and smears has been central to it's success over the last decade or so.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
MTB Babe
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Icon 1 posted November 28, 2010 23:41      Profile for MTB Babe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Absolutely. And inherent in that success is the growing accessibility of this misinformation among those who are keen to hear it..

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Samir: No one in this country can ever pronounce my name right. It's not that hard: Na-ee-ana-jaad. Nayanajaad.
Michael Bolton: Yeah, well at least your name isn't Michael Bolton.

Posts: 1003 | From: State College, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2010 03:31      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Callipygous & MTB Babe, Climate change is happening, however I still do not know if it is of natural causes or man made causes.

____ We know that in the past the world was hot and steamy, we also know that there have been Ice Ages. Was man the tipping point then??

____ If we are watching a natural event can we really change the outcome, we cannot stop earthquakes, or volcanoes.

____ I have a ham contact in New Zeeland, he has been filling me in on the Mine disaster and the recent Earthquakes there, did man cause the quakes by mining the coal? They are pretty close together.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
zorgon
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Icon 8 posted November 29, 2010 09:49      Profile for zorgon     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh my GOD, MoMan. Please, do more reading and inform yourself. This is absolutely ridiculous. You have got it completely upside down. Mankind has taken megatons of reduced carbon that took millions of years for natural processes to sequester and turned it back into atmospheric carbon dioxide in a single century. For this NOT to change the climate would require that several fundamental physical laws (i.e. Planck's Law, and the Second Law of Thermodynamics, for starters) to be completely wrong. Go forth and prove this, then you can continue to make such statements as you just did.
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2010 12:15      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nuh uh.

Climate change is a roomer. It's friggin' chilly down over here - if it was warming, why couldn't I wear a t-shirt to work today?

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2010 15:30      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I have read reams of data about new/old carbon. What I am asking, do you know for sure that the warming trend is caused by Man, or is it part of a cycle that is going to go on no matter what we do?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2010 15:45      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
____ I have read reams of data about new/old carbon. What I am asking, do you know for sure that the warming trend is caused by Man, or is it part of a cycle that is going to go on no matter what we do?

Yes, we've had warm and cool periods in the past, which proves that the Earth's climate is pretty unstable. The question is, is it smart for us to be adding to that instability?

CO2 is a known Greenhouse Gas, the absorption/emission characteristics that make it so are easily demonstrated in the laboratory. As Zorgon pointed out, with the amount of CO2 we've been pouring into the atmosphere, you'd have to re-write some of my favourite laws of physics to deny that the CO2 will have a warming effect.

If (part of) the warming we've seen is a 'natural cycle' then it's even more important that we stop making things worse by adding gigatonnes/year of a known Greenhouse Gas to the atmosphere.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2010 15:59      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But we are overdue an ice age.
Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2010 16:17      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cyberbalkanization. People often tend to seek out groups of people that believe similarly to themselves online, and then reinforce those beliefs. It's why the weirdness doesn't export so well to other countries. You get the occasional wanna-be evangelist, but most don't do actual conversation/debate.

People are very good at ignoring facts and only listening to what they want to hear. Unfortunately, the internet and cable TV have made it easier to pick and choose the sources of one's information.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2010 01:44      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^^ what sxepto said! ^^
Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2010 03:08      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I am going to take the role of CO2's defender, I do not believe that CO2 is guilty. Now let us look at Freon, Inert but it does break down Ozone, Some of you are not old enough to remember the first Ozone debates and the holes at the polar caps. Most of the Ozone we had is gone from the Freon, and breaking down the CO2 that is just below the Ozone layer. Figure out how to make tons of Ozone and it will take care of the CO2.

____ Back in the Early seventies I had a Math Prof, that was a big proponent of the Chaos Theory, if I took any thing away from his classes it was to distrust the herd.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 2 posted November 30, 2010 05:12      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Eek!]

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2010 06:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Please remember that short wave lengths have more energy than longer waves. Ultraviolet can generate more heat than Infrared. The Ozone layer was our shield from UV. Because of the "Montreal Protocol" the Ozone layer should be well on the mend by 2050. Heat into the atmosphere will drop. Now I agree that until all of the worlds citizens stop burning every thing, CO2 levels will climb but I do not believe that CO2 is the only guilty party. It did not take very many tons of Freon to blow the holes in the Ozone cloud.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2010 10:30      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was going to reply, but no... there are just so many incorrect assumptions and conclusions that I'm not even going to try.

Have fun believing that freon, which has seen a massive decline use and a corresponding decline in atmospheric concentration since the 80s, is to blame for global warming. I'm sure the tooth fairy will agree.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted December 01, 2010 00:17      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well I'll take a few swipes at the biggies.

ozone: protects us from ionizing radiation.
CO2: raises the temperature of the earth.


Most of the ozone we have , which is depleted from things such such as CFC's, is still there protecting us fron UV (sub 300 nm) radiation. The accumulation of greenhouse gasses such as CO2 and methane, doesn't have much to with the protection of DNA from ionizing radiation.

Just because CFC's greak down ozone ( not a very happy molecule) doesn't mean it can break down C02 ( a rather docile happy molecule).

We want Ozone in the upper atmosphere, we don't want levels of C02 in the upper atmosphere to increase, therefore, if CO2 was somehow being depleted from teh upper atmosphere, which it is not, that would be a good thing.

For someone analyzing Climate change using Chaos theory, they would most probably be very very worried, and want to stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. Chaos theory is a set of analysis tools to describe systems where the initial conditions are very important for balance and that any very slight change of these initial conditions ( say Co2 levels for example) will throw things out of balance.

true, short waves (i.e. UV radiation) has more energy than longer waves (i.e. VIS. light).

The ozone layer still is our shield from UV.

CO2 is not the only guilty party, methane producers ( cow eaters are also as guilty) .

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 01, 2010 17:15      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Hams are very interested in the Ionosphere, we bounce radio waves off the inside of it, I know that for my signal to make it to Australia it would take two bounces off of the Ionosphere, and one off of The Pacific, So I have to set my antennas for the right take off angle. The reflectivity of the Ionosphere is dependent on Solar Storms and Solar Flares.

____ When the hole appeared over Antarctica The use of fifteen meters onto the ice from CONUS went away, that is slowly getting better, also the Solar Index is climbing meaning more sun spots thus more Ionization of the upper atmosphere.

____ If a person were to compare Weather patterns, to Solar Index there are some correlations, Great lakes water levels seem to follow the Solar index also.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=274378

____ For some reason I forgot that CO2 was about reacted as it can get, you are right I do not think that even O3 and Lots of sunlight can change it into anything else.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 04, 2010 07:05      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Really officer I was growing these plants to clean up the atmosphere.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/185341883/798134

http://www.hempmuseum.org/ROOMS/ARM%20BIO-FUELS.htm

____ Pines work year round other plants only during the growing season.

____ Oh great we may have shot our selves in the foot by cleaning up the air, bring back the smog.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090422132829.htm [Wink] [Wink] [ohwell] [Wink] [Wink]

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
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Icon 1 posted December 08, 2010 12:42      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/08/new_model_doubled_co2_sub_2_degrees_warming/
Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged


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