homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » Obesity is not a Moral Judgement! (Page 0)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: Obesity is not a Moral Judgement!
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 01:24      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Eek! Calli, that made me blush. However/wherever did you find that?!

It's a classic song. I first heard Maria Muldaur's version on her album "Waitress in a Donut Shop" (excellent album btw), but quite a few others have recorded it.

Mind you Rhonnie, I have absolutely no idea what they are singing about, what do you think it means? [Big Grin] [devil wand]

Sounds like a bebop version of baby got back to me.
It's what I have always thought about you Ash, you just don't know your doowop from your bebop. [Wink]

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
zesovietrussian
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 1177

Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 09:12      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is an issue that weighs heavily on the vast majority of the US population, we can't be so light-hearted about it [Razz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhfLfJCqrqI

On a slightly more serios note:
Rhonwyyn, would you please confirm or deny the issues I have listed in my previous post were in fact obesity-related? Have they magically disappeared as soon as you stopped paying attention to the voice of reason and filled your head with Kate Harding's hateful drivel? Are you now able to go for weeks without any sleep, outrun Usain Bolt and out-cycle Lance Armstrong? Was it all due to "stupid people" telling you "stupid things?" Is it commonplace in the FA community to ignore any inconvenient truth and always scream "fat hate" whenever anyone brings up facts and ideas that don't go along with what Ms Harding says?

Also, why in the world is your husband working at a restaurant, doesn't he have a master's degree in education? And why are you still at your job if you hate it so much? Don't get jealous and hateful and call someone "upper class" when they happen to have one hour breaks instead of your half-hour. Instead sit down, edit your resume, fire it off to companies that do offer one hour breaks and salary you're looking for, and away you go. This is America, the land of opportunity. No one is stopping you but yourself.

Posts: 1094 | From: Boston | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
zesovietrussian
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 1177

Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 11:38      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One final question - while there's plenty of allegedly healthy members in their mid-20s to early 30s on most FA boards, I haven't seen that many in their 40s or older. How so? Did they all suddenly get bored and quit, or could it be that reality (and "death fat") has finally caught up to them?
Posts: 1094 | From: Boston | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 15:43      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Look around. Their are fat people over 40 all over the damn country.

That was the lamest troll yet in this topic.

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6362 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 16:52      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I did not see your or ZSRs post until after I was out and about. I observed many people today. I did not record keep I just observed. some were very skinny, some were not, many were between the extremes, I think we notice the extremes more often, so without taking concrete records how do we know what the pulse of society is.

--------------------
If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

Posts: 5443 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
zesovietrussian
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 1177

Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 17:12      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
Look around. Their are fat people over 40 all over the damn country.

That was the lamest troll yet in this topic.

Of course there are - riding their electric carts around Walmart, unable to walk after their joints finally succumb to arthritis, or waiting in line at the pharmacy so they can get the meds that would keep them alive, NOT sitting at their computer and spewing their delusional BS on some fat acceptance blong trying to convince the world that being 250 pounds overweight is perfectly healthy and there's no need for healthy diet or exercise. And they will most likely live to a ripe old age just like the rest of us, thanks to modern medicine that can truly work wonders. Problem is, those "wonders" come at a very steep price, and everyone ends up bearing the cost.
Posts: 1094 | From: Boston | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 18:06      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Blah blah blah

All you're doing is repeating the same things that have already been said. You aren't presenting any new information or viewpoints. In fact, it seems like you're just throwing around insults to try piss people off.

Want to show you care? Figure out a way to make healthy food cheaper. Go to any fast food place and you can get a burger for $1 while a salad costs $5 or more. When burgers cost $5 and a salad costs $1, you'll see people start eating healthier and not before.

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6362 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 18:33      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
Figure out a way to make healthy food cheaper. Go to any fast food place and you can get a burger for $1 while a salad costs $5 or more. When burgers cost $5 and a salad costs $1, you'll see people start eating healthier and not before.

I'd like to see that in my lifetime. [Smile]

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9203 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 19:07      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Since that's worth a discussion...

Why are the salads $5 and the burgers $1 anyway?

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7667 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
zesovietrussian
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 1177

Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 20:03      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
Blah blah blah

All you're doing is repeating the same things that have already been said. You aren't presenting any new information or viewpoints. In fact, it seems like you're just throwing around insults to try piss people off.

Want to show you care? Figure out a way to make healthy food cheaper. Go to any fast food place and you can get a burger for $1 while a salad costs $5 or more. When burgers cost $5 and a salad costs $1, you'll see people start eating healthier and not before.

Ask and you shall receive. Combine that with this and a cup of ice water, and you have a somewhat healthy meal for $2. Of course, most will opt for X, Y and Z instead and then wonder why they're fat. Also, membership at this place only costs $10 a month - spend a few hours there every week instead of reading 4487548754876 fat acceptance blogs, and you can eat all the burgers in the world and still be in great shape. Still blah blah blah, Mr Troll Hunter?
Posts: 1094 | From: Boston | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2010 21:46      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now why don't I hear ads for those items on the radio?

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9203 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 00:23      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Since that's worth a discussion...

Why are the salads $5 and the burgers $1 anyway?

Doesn't matter , weight maintenance or loss is simply a calorie restriction game.

twinkie diet

summary, nutrition prof. eats only junk food and loses 27 lbs. 'cause he went from consuming 2600 kcal a day to 1800 kcal a day.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3080 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 02:32      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Xan, did your statement ever wake me up, why is the burger joint salad so expensive? They already have the Lettuce, Tomato, and Cheese in the cooler. Salads have a longer shelf life than burger & fries. If it is to be a meat salad they have that in stock also for their chicken sandwitches, that packet of dressing does not cost fifty cents. They have to run the coolers anyway to store the fresh stock. Burger joints are ripping us off on Salads I can not believe that volume on burger sales is enough to offset cooking price.

____ This does not even come into the economy of scale. It is just plane ripoff .

--------------------
If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

Posts: 5443 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 13:41      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Since that's worth a discussion...

Why are the salads $5 and the burgers $1 anyway?

Doesn't matter , weight maintenance or loss is simply a calorie restriction game.

twinkie diet

summary, nutrition prof. eats only junk food and loses 27 lbs. 'cause he went from consuming 2600 kcal a day to 1800 kcal a day.

It's not just about weight-loss or weight-maintenance, though. The obesity issues in this country arise from the fact that for one reason or another, people are eating too much and one of the reasons for that is, for whatever reason, people are choosing foods that aren't triggering their satiation signal, or they're missing the signal, or they've simply decoupled eating and stopping eating from actually being hungry and then not hungry (that said, I've had pet guinea pigs who comfort ate so it's not as if emotion-tummy crosstalk is exclusively human).

I don't eat a lot of fast food. When I do, it's vegetarian, so I've got a choice between Subway, burrito joints, and divey Chinese places. The last time I was in a McD's or Burger King, it was for a "milkshake" (I don't know WTF those actually are, but my husband and I drink 'em on road trips just because we can). The last time I was in a Wendy's, I was trying to buy a baked potato but they didn't have any, so, in a nutshell, the last time I actually had a meal at one of these places, it was six years ago. kreziserb and I went to Burger King because...I don't know why. Anyway, I had a veggie burger (if BK doesn't have them now, they had them then) and kreziserb had a Whopper. We both had fries.

I was hungrier when I finished than when I started. It was fscking amazing. I've never managed to consume that many calories and feel like I've gone negative. kreziserb wasn't faring much better. We wanted another meal, but knew we shouldn't, and we put eating at Burger King on our list of "things we'll never do again". As a biochemist, I was actually kind of scared because I know that, with the amount of calories I put in, and the amount of calories bundled into fat in that food, the stop signal should have tripped, but it didn't and that meant that there was something really weird going on. And ever since I've been wondering if that's not the root of it - people buy this crap because it's cheap, and then eat too much of it because something about that food isn't hitting their biochemical buttons.

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7667 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 14:02      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by zesovietrussian:
Ask and you shall receive.

Look at the picture. Then look again. It's enlarged. That side salad is not even worth one portion of vegetables. I don't know for you, but I'd still end up with a $5 meal.

Give me a Subway-style sandwich, and it will be a more balanced meal, more filling and even more important: tastier. Because it is an important psychological side of eating: sensorial satisfaction.

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 16:20      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
The last time I was in a McD's or Burger King, it was for a "milkshake" (I don't know WTF those actually are, but my husband and I drink 'em on road trips just because we can).

Pretty much what you'd expect in a shake: milk, ice cream, flavor, sugar (in Oz, High Fructose Corn Syrup in Merkinistan). Oh, and if you get the big cup, more than twice the calories of a Big Mac.

quote:
Anyway, I had a veggie burger (if BK doesn't have them now, they had them then) and kreziserb had a Whopper. We both had fries.

I was hungrier when I finished than when I started. It was fscking amazing. I've never managed to consume that many calories and feel like I've gone negative.

That would be the HFCS, too much of it interferes with the "I'm full" signal. Nasty.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10443 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 16:40      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stereo wrote:
Look at the picture. Then look again. It's enlarged. That side salad is not even worth one portion of vegetables.

I'm going to elaborate on this on this.

First, here's the picture that McDonald's shows you:
 -

The ad says this is made of "premium mixed greens" and what they show would be considered premium quality since there's no iceberg evident and you can clearly see spinach, arugula, radicchio, red oak lettuce and what looks like either frisée or curly endive (I can't identify it).

But that's just an advertisement.

This is what you get:
 -

Notice that, unlike the ad which features a salad with no iceberg lettuce showing, this is basically a bowl of iceberg with a single spinach leaf, a single piece of radicchio and a single piece of red oak showing. We do get two cherry tomatoes and some glimpses of orange that hint at carrots.

Notice also that it's not a whole lot larger than the tuna can that I put there for size comparison. I should have taken the photo at an angle, too, so you could see that the stuff is level with the top of the bowl, not overflowing like the advertisement picture.

And this is what's in that bowl:
 -

Left to right-ish from the top left have tomatoes, carrots, radicchio, red oak, spinach, iceberg and pieces of the stem of the iceberg lettuce that nobody would eat.

What you see is:
< 2 grams of carrot
< 2 grams of raddichio
< 2 grams of red oak
2 grams of spinach
12 grams of tomato
70 grams of iceberg lettuce (including the stem... 60 without).

Of this dubious bounty, half of one of the tomatoes was mushy and starting to go bad. About 1/4 of the lettuce was wilted and turning brown (but hadn't gone slimy yet, so it was probably safe to eat). You can't see it easily in the picture, but the "shaved carrots" are paper thin and have brown spots on some of the edges.

So... yes, you can buy a salad for $1, but it's going to be almost entirely iceberg lettuce and about 1/4 of it is starting to rot.


And just to wrap this up... here's the ingredients list from the website:
"Iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, spring mix (may contain baby red romaine, baby green romaine, baby red leaf, baby green leaf, baby red Swiss chard, baby red oak, baby green oak, lolla rosa, tango, tatsoi, arugula, mizuna, radicchio, frisee), carrots. Grape tomatoes. CURRENTLY, OUR SALADS DO NOT CONTAIN SPINACH."

So that spinach in the upper right corner? Probably some e-coli tainted shit that will kill me later.

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6362 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 17:07      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The portion size of McSalads might be small, but they make up for it by drenching them in high-calorie salad dressing. Some of those salads have more calories than a cheeseburger.

Btw - Grumpy: almost every advertising picture of ice cream is actually mashed potato.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10443 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 17:13      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I am on board with Stereo on Subway. The Turkey&Cheese foot long with extra meat but only put half on the sandwitch, give us three of those slices to give the dog for being good on the road trip. Fixings Lettuce, Tomato, Cucumber, and Black Olives. Now the MrsMoMan wants dressing on her end, I want salt and pepper. This one sandwitch will hold us both off for four or more hours. So we each end up eating one half and we are both satisfied, whats not to like, by the way their Honey Oat Wheat is really good.

--------------------
If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

Posts: 5443 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 17:39      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Famous Druid wrote:
Btw - Grumpy: almost every advertising picture of ice cream is actually mashed potato.

Not true! (at least not often)

Mashed potatoes don't really have the right texture and sheen, so they never look quite right. Ice cream advertisements typically feature tasty looking scoops of vegetable shortening mixed with powdered sugar. YUM!

There are also photographers that use frosting mixed with powdered sugar (which, if you know what frosting is, isn't far from shortening mixed with sugar).

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6362 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 19:42      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Subway was a frickin' lifesaver on family road trips. In fact, any sub shop was a lifesaver. There's nothing else out there for a vegetarian, especially if you're west of the Appalachians and east of the Cascades.

Edit: Well, there's a couple other options for vegetarians on the road: a sketchy Chinese place or a suspicious Mexican one. Or any diner that serves breakfast around the clock. However, all of these establishments require you to sit down, except for maybe the suspicious Mexican places, but when I was road-tripping with my family, first, my dad hates Mexican food (it's the cilantro) and second, everything about family road-trips was timed to the gas tank. Need to pee? Well you gotta hold it. Hungry? You gotta wait...and then the meal itself needs to be something that can be ordered, received, and paid for in roughly the time it takes to pump the gas.

I married a man who takes a completely polar opposite approach. Seriously. I suddenly discovered that road trips can actually be comfortable and fun. It was eye-opening, I tell ya.

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7667 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 10, 2010 20:31      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
The Famous Druid wrote:
Btw - Grumpy: almost every advertising picture of ice cream is actually mashed potato.

Not true! (at least not often)

Mashed potatoes don't really have the right texture and sheen, so they never look quite right. Ice cream advertisements typically feature tasty looking scoops of vegetable shortening mixed with powdered sugar. YUM!

There are also photographers that use frosting mixed with powdered sugar (which, if you know what frosting is, isn't far from shortening mixed with sugar).

Wow, Americans even make their fake food overly sweet.

My sister used to work in advertising, her first photo shoot was for ice cream, she told me all about it in tedious detail, it was mashed potato. This aussie show about advertising also mentioned the mashed potato trick in a recent episode.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10443 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 11, 2010 00:35      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Grumpy_________I am not convinced that is spinach. I know there is a green that looks alot like spinach but is not.many specias of swiss chard ( and there are many!) look alot like spinach at the beginning.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3080 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted November 11, 2010 05:28      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I ate the spinach leaves and other non-gross bits of the salad, so I know it was spinach from the taste.

The most recent outbreak of E. Coli in spinach was back in September and it's over, so I'm fairly sure the notice was related to that and they haven't gotten around to updating the website.

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6362 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ugh, MightyClub
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 3112

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2010 10:11      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Grumpy, I for one appreciate your sacrifice of one U.S. Dollar and your very health to research this side salad issue. The fact is, dollar menus are just a way to get people in the door. You aren't going to make any sort of real meal out of those menus -- not in terms of resulting fullness and definitely not in terms of nutritional quality.

--------------------
Ugh!

Posts: 1667 | From: Ithaca, NY | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2014 Geek Culture® All Rights Reserved.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0


homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam