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Author Topic: Fear mongering
Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 13:24      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm taking a risk here, but I'm hoping we might engage in an intelligent conversation that involves politics. What can I say, I'm a hopeless optimist. [ohwell]

From today's Doonesbury Daily Dose page (http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html):
quote:
"What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]?...This is a person who is fundamentally out of touch with how the world works, who happened to have played a wonderful con, as a result of which he is now president."
-- Newt Gingrich

This plays to all the fury and bother over Obama's supposed lack of US citizenship, his alleged religion, and all of the other Obama half-truths and untruths that have been thrown about.

And this fear mongering worries me. Not because I think Obama is the second coming, or anything like that. It worries me because the electorate buys it.

It worries me because the same electorate seriously considered, just for a moment, changing the constitution to allow Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for president. What makes Arnold OK where Obama is not? Because Arnold is white? Because he's a Republican? He's not muslim?

I probably could hone post into a coherent debate topic, but I'm supposed to be working, so I'm just going to throw it against the wall and hope it doesn't burst into flame. Because I think the question of whether we allow fear to shape the direction of our country is legitimate.

Also, go vote in your primary (if any) tonight.

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Ugh!

Posts: 1742 | From: Ithaca, NY | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 14:25      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The problem isn't that the electorate buys this sort of thing. Most of them don't.

The problem is that the minority that believes it is passionate in their belief and they will get out and vote. The majority that don't believe such nonsense are fairly apathetic and most won't vote.

I second your suggestion that people go out and vote. If we remain apathetic, our leadership will be chosen by the violent, racist nut jobs that have been in the news so often of late.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 14:45      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ And there is a POOooOOP pot of nut jobs out there. If you were to correct some little fact they have, about two hundred more really insane ideas come to light.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 16:48      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I tried. I really tried. Not to jump in. Ah well...so much for self-control.

But to keep it simple:

I don't disagree with what Ugh is trying to start, nor Steen's nor MoMan's posts.

But the problem as I see it is, that once these elitist ponces, such as Gingrich get into the limelight, you cannot ever be rid of them. Who cares what Newt says? He has proven himself to be an a$$hat over, and over, and over. But the American news media will quote him and (some of) the ignorant electorate will continue to worship and vote for these lying, cheating, manipulating types on BOTH sides of the aisle.

YMMV

gg [ohwell]

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 17:09      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:

The problem is that the minority that believes it is passionate in their belief and they will get out and vote.

An Aussie told me that this is why he favors Australia's mandatory election policy. Since everyone MUST vote, the pols can't get away with catering to the fringe because the normal people will be at the polls too. Here in the States though, the normal people are completely burned-out and tired and fed-up and because they don't have to vote, and because all they get is the idiotic echo-chamber of the 24-hour news cycle, they stay home and thus the politicians continue to cater to the fringe.

On the other hand, the sane and normal conservatives chose not to show up for their gubernatorial primary in my state this year, thus handing the nomination off to a complete Tea Party whack-job who inspired another whack-job to join as a third party candidate, thus repulsing your normal, sane GOP voter and splitting the whack-job vote. This pretty much guarantees the election for the Dems, so long as we Colorado Democrats actually show up to vote. I dunno what the sane Colorado Republicans will do. Hold their nose and vote for their preferred (or, at least, less despicable) nutcase, hold their nose and vote for the Democrat, or just stay home and weep. The GOP is trying to get their Colorado candidate to stand aside for someone who might actually stand a chance, but so far he ain't budging. I find this entertaining only because it's not my party.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 19:11      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Media Echo Amplification Chamber does tend to blow things out of proportion. And it's unfortunate that people in positions of power tend to abuse the MEAC.

I wasn't aware that Aussies are required to vote. How is that enforced?

On another note, I got to use New York State's fancy new optical scan voting system tonight. I love my tech, but I'm unconvinced that this is an improvement over the old lever system. The ballot is about as incomprehensible as it was in the old booth. And as a bonus, you mark it up in pen, so if you make a mistake or change your mind you're out of luck. I suppose you could ask for a fresh form, but what a pain. And I can't imagine electronic equipment will really turn out to be cheaper to maintain. OK, sorry for the sidetrack.

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Ugh!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2010 23:59      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
An Aussie told me that this is why he favors Australia's mandatory election policy. Since everyone MUST vote, the pols can't get away with catering to the fringe because the normal people will be at the polls too.

The disadvantage of that is that you get people turning up at polling booths who genuinely don't give a rats rectum, and vote for whoever is on the top of the voting paper. This 'donkey vote' can be several % of the total, and is often enough to swing the election result.

Also, after the farce that was our recent election, (a hung parliament where the independents who held the balance of power were openly demanding billion-dollar pork barrel projects for their districts) I'd be reluctant to recommend anything about the aussie system to anyone.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2010 00:05      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Quoth Ugh, MightyClub :
I wasn't aware that Aussies are required to vote. How is that enforced?

Anyone on the electoral role who doesn't vote gets a small fine, unless they have a good excuse (illness, etc).

I've never heard of anyone's excuse being checked up on, or rejected, so if you don't vote, you'll just have to fill in a few forms and tell a lie to avoid the fine. The paperwork's enough of a nuisance that most people figure it's easier to vote.

I dunno how they deal with people who never register to vote, but I expect they have their ways of finding them, eg cross-referencing with drivers licence lists, etc.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 17, 2010 13:51      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Count on the comedians: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-16-2010/rally-to-restore-sanity

It's really happening. Unfortunately, I have shit to do on Friday so the chances of me being able to hop a plane are somewhere between miniscule and none.

But, in honor of the event, I am changing my .sig.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted September 17, 2010 21:58      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh fsck yes.

I'm sick enough of this sh*t that I might just hop on a train. However, 'tis definitely something I'd need to play by ear, as things are ridiculously up in the air for me of late. Still...that's a cause I fully support. [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

P.S. If you've got ~20 minutes to spend...watch the Clinton interview, including the extended edition. That's one hell of a guy - he gives a brilliant assessment of things that really needs to get out there, to drown out all this other nonsense.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted September 18, 2010 09:12      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Off topic (sorry): Xanthine, might I recommend adding a relevancy link to your .sig?

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 18, 2010 11:39      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Better?

I thought a citation would be enough, though. [crazy]

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 18, 2010 12:15      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ The race for the Governors Office in Michigan, is becoming quite funny as each calls the other the Pot/Kettle.


____ As these Tea Party Members get to Washington WHO ARE THEY GOING TO ALIGN WITH? Who will assign jobs to them and what standing roles will they have. January will be very interesting?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Geek 2U
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Icon 1 posted September 19, 2010 08:15      Profile for Mr. Geek 2U     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well at least President Obama is not a witch! Not like the Tea Party Candidate from Delaware!

AND YOU'RE LITTLE DOG, TOO!

Have a great day!

Mr. Geek 2U!

--------------------
My friends call me Skippy

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Erbo
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted September 21, 2010 00:36            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Everyone here really ought to read Angelo Codevilla's essay, "America's Ruling Class - And the Perils of Revolution" in the American Spectator.

Codevilla's premise is that, over the years, there has grown to be a "Ruling Class" in American society, that directly depends on the power of government for their personal careers and fortunes. Not all of them are in government; you can find them as corporate officers as well, especially among the Wall Street banksters. And not all of them are Democratic; there are a number of Republicans (albeit the sort usually thought of as "RINOs") there as well.

The Ruling Class tends to look down on the "rest of us" (what Codevilla calls "the country class"), calling them racist, greedy, and stupid. Their attitude might best be described by the words of Matilda Wormwood's father Harry: "I'm big, you're small; I'm right, you're wrong; now shut up!" The Ruling Class does not intend to let anything stand in its way of power; hence, Nancy Pelosi's statement when confronted with the question of whether the Constitution allows Congress to mandate individuals to purchase private health insurance: "Are you serious? Are you serious?"

Read the whole thing, and you'll begin to understand the forces that drive the "Tea Party" activists. And maybe, like me, you'll lament what our great nation has become.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2010 01:23      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"america's" ruling class, how is this different from everywhere else, always. It is always just a degree that such a class is prevelent in societies.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2010 20:22      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
... And maybe, like me, you'll lament what our great nation has become.

OK Erbo let's keep this simple. Please tell me the main things the US has lost in the last few years. Not a long laundry list just say the three or four main things that have marked what you describe as your great nation's decline. Because the funny thing is I can't see any fundamental change from here. You now have a president, who is just a simple centre right politician, a pragmatic conservative. He wishes to return to a tax regime pretty much equivalent to what existed in the Clinton presidency. He has to do this not to fund a huge expansion of the state, but to pay in the main for the fiscal irresponsibility of the previous administration, which apart from the near financial meltdown that occurred on it's watch, also oversaw two wars, a big defence build up of dubious utility, an a large unfunded expansion of Medicare, and instead of raising taxes, cut them. How is this new grown up attitude to tax, that it should actually pay for expenditure, some terrible loss of freedom or breach of your divinely inspired constitution? If you so wish you might also attempt to explain why your lot now try to disown GWB, when to the rest of us you and he are fundamentally part of the same extreme radical right. Or is it that you like him regard reality as something you construct for yourself, and change at whim, rather than any kind of constraining factor?

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged


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