homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » The size of the Republican base

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: The size of the Republican base
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 25, 2009 16:01      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As an outsider trying to understand US politics, I found this study of the world view of the Republican base very interesting. I doubt that any of the attitudes uncovered will be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention, nonetheless it is (rather scarily) illuminating to see them gathered together into a paranoid and incoherent whole. That none of it makes any sense is bad enough, but the statement I found most frightening was this one near the beginning

quote:
The conservative Republican base represents almost one-in-five voters in the electorate, and nearly two out of every three self-identified Republicans.
That's an awful lot of people living in la-la land.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 25, 2009 17:11      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
.

____ Callipygous, The problem with many conservatives, is that they don't believe that the market place forces will do worse to them than a government program.

____ People have died because the present system has failed them, but they are more afraid of "Obama Death Panels" than the rules of their own insurance companies.

____ This is a topic that needs an ASM a Red or Blue Five to mindlessly quote the party line to keep us interested.

____ I wish, I could play the Devils Advocate well enough to get these forums rocking again, we haven't had a good flame war in a long time, so many thoughtful posters have left or are only lurking and not commenting.

____ I wish that we could get a good topic that would get every one involved again, No Vitrol just a good heated discussion again.

____ I am sure every body here knows that I am just left of center, not in either ditch, some times I am conservative, some times I am Liberal. However you are all entitled to you own opinions I may not agree with you but you are right to have an opinion.

____ So how do I become this forums Devils Advocate?

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 25, 2009 19:15      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To be honest Moman I wan't looking for a flame war. I have long been curious as to the extent of the support for these ideas, the appeal of which is just incomprehensible to us foreigners.

I'm amazed (and not a little scared) at how widespread that support still is. Do you see any sign of this madness dying out, or is it just so deeply ingrained that it will take many more years

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 25, 2009 20:18      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interesting report. The real worry for the Republicans is that the 'swing voters' now see them as a bunch of kooks.

Having allowed themselves to become the party of the lunatic fringe, it's hard to see how the Republicans can win back the respect of the middle ground. Every time the faithful take their guns to presidential appearances, or go all frothy at the mouth about Death Panels and secret FEMA concentration camps, they just drive away ordinary, sensible voters.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 01:18      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
.


____ Actually. from where I live one has to be a closet liberal. Every funding issue is blamed on the liberals shut off the money.

____ I really fear some waak job or as TFD calls them Nutter, is going to do a bang up job and please Rush, Glenn, and Sean.

____ Some times I really worry, When a Liberal Sunday school teacher, is ousted from Congress by a GOP leaning right to lifer.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 07:24      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Every time the faithful take their guns to presidential appearances, or go all frothy at the mouth about Death Panels and secret FEMA concentration camps, they just drive away ordinary, sensible voters.

The problem with that, you see, is that there aren't enough "ordinary, sensible voters" that actually vote in elections.

Though Presidential Elections frequently see voter turnout in the 50-60ish% range (save for the last one which was much higher), the "off year" elections generally only see 25-35% turnout; if that. (Note: I am making up numbers here, but the basic truth is that practically nobody votes in "off year" elections.)

These "off year" elections elect members of Congress, especially the House of Representatives who only have 2 year terms. They also vote on state governmental bodies and state laws.

Now, guess which voting block actually shows up consistently to *ALL* of the elections. If you said "the looney nutter fringes," you're correct!

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 08:07      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
.

____ Okay I am going to add more fuel to the fire. Go into a WallMart near the end of the week and attempt to buy ammo, its all sold out.


http://www.slate.com/id/2233154/


____ The Nutters are buying at really scary rates. The deer hunters can't get the rounds they want or need for a good deer harvest. Looks like the DNR will have low numbers this year.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ugh, MightyClub
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 3112

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 09:23      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, MoMan, that Slate article seems a bit hysterical. Yes, I'm sure a handful of people went out to buy a gun because they were afraid Obama would turn off their supply. But I suspect the biggest underlying reason for the increase in background checks is the economy, and more specifically, unemployment. If you live anywhere near hunt-able land and you lose your job, guess what a great way to put food on the table is? *ding* You go hunting! With a gun! I mean come on, think about it. If you're worried about the government taking your precious guns away, wouldn't you already have a gun or ten?

Meanwhile, Calli, that article is way to f-ing long for me to digest during lunch [Wink] But what I wonder is what they consider the "Republican Base". The current hysteria paints them as bible-thumping, gun-toting maniacs, but I find it hard to believe 66% of self-identified Republicans truly agree with 100% of the Republican agenda.

--------------------
Ugh!

Posts: 1742 | From: Ithaca, NY | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 10:14      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
.


____ Ugh, I have all of our farm posted "No Hunting Or Tresspassing" yet every year I have to run the blind and dumb asses off the farm. This year we had two Does give birth to four fawns in the hay field. I am not about to let some clown come onto my land and kill those fawns or their mothers, I know they (the dear) could go off of our farm and there is little I can do about that but here on the hill-top No Hunting.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 11:48      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipygous wrote:
That's an awful lot of people living in la-la land.

And they intend to stay there.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
tweety
Assimilated
Member # 3890

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted October 26, 2009 18:58      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm surprised anyone is surprised at the religious intensity underlying US politics. After all, it was religious nutjobs (at least their contemporaries thought of them as such) who founded this country. If anyone in Europe had wanted the Puritans they would have stayed.

And, don't think religious tolerance at the time was what we consider it today. Not at all. Sure, you could have your own beliefs, as long as you weren't hanging around in hostile territory. That's how Massachusetts and Rhode Island got their start.

This is also the country that amended it's Constitution with the 18th Amendment, otherwise known as Prohibition, or the Noble Experiment, making the country dry to save her citizens from the Satanic vice of alcohol. Of course, organized crime sprang forth from the bowels of our Saving, and Prohibition was repealed after 13 years.

So, today we have the Right to Life movement. And the "The Constitution says 'One Nation under God' and our dollar bills proclaim 'In God We Trust'" crowd who would as soon impose a national religion (Christianity, because obviously the Constitution and Green Back both refer to the Holy Trinity) as defend gun rights as guaranteed by God and the Constitution (because, somehow, God gave the Founding Fathers the Constitution, whole, just as He gave the Commandments to Moses). Of course, none of them see the irony in that position. *cough* First Amendment *cough* The Nutters today have a fine heritage going back to those who defended segregation based on piss-poor Biblical interpretations (and, I'm sure, are the same as those who believe we Jews have horns), defended slavery based on those same teachings, brought forth Prohibition, never wanted equal rights for women, and definitely don't want equal rights for the LGBT crowd.

They're also the same crowd that believes it's okay for the Feds to tell a woman what to do with her body, but God help us all if DC tells the dipshits on Wall Street or in Detroit how to manage better the taxpayer money they begged from Congress so they don't pull us into the Second Great Depression, which would make the original look like a mild cold.

Again, complete lack of understanding the irony of their position.

--------------------
If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

Posts: 454 | From: IL | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
brainisfried
Geek-in-Training
Member # 3067

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 28, 2009 07:21      Profile for brainisfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you want to understand conservatives you could try talking with us. If all I knew was what I read in the NYT, Slate, the BBC, etc I'd be scared of right-wingers too.
Posts: 39 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 28, 2009 09:17      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
.

____ brainisfried, I have a Hobby (Ham Radio) this hobby is populated mostly by Conservatives. The level of ethnic bashing, ethnic jokes and snide comments about Liberals, tells me more than any discourse you could give. The undercurrent gestures and comments drown out the spoken or text.

____ I am also a hobby farmer, again a bastion of conservatism, just go to a grange meeting sometime. While Conservatives bad mouth entitlement programs try to cut off crop subsidies.

____ Even when G Bush was telling the FCC to change a few rules so everyone can have broadband none of the hams put his words into the same sentence as Broadband over Power Lines, and its interference possibilities. We are still trying to get the FCC from being a cheerleader on that POS.

____ M. Powell said just put that broadband signal on those power lines that go every where, and so what if there is interference with licensed users of the spectrum. So some time if the cops or ambulance can't contact the dispatcher while on the way to your house thank your neighbor for downloading Debbie does Dallas. George wanted his former friends from Enron to be able to sell another service over their lines.

____ Yup anything for Business, nothing for the worker.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 28, 2009 11:55      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
Callipygous wrote:
That's an awful lot of people living in la-la land.

And they intend to stay there.

Yeah, I've noticed that. It's not a new thing for people to be drawn to a belief that they know something the majority does not (gnosis, for example).

Still, it has been a little odd when I've pointed out that a conservative argument was based on a hoax article, and instead of recognizing the point, they doubled down, arguing that a fairly routine government action was still somehow the wrong thing to do.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 28, 2009 12:14      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
arguing that a fairly routine government action was still somehow the wrong thing to do.

Case in point:

FOX news had a brief article that the Obama kids hadn't been given the swine flu vaccination yet, as the first batch is reserved for high-risk groups. For once, they didn't try to spin the story, just presented it as-is.

This sparked a flurry of postings on freerepublic, from right wing nut jobs reading sinister implications into what is basically a perfectly ordinary action (waiting your turn along with everyone else). Is swine flu a New World Order conspiracy to pollute our Vital Bodily Fluids? Are they secretly tipping-off Democrats and Muslims to avoid the vaccination? If Obama won't vaccinate his kids, why should I vaccinate mine?

It'd be interesting to see statistics on flu deaths in the USA this year, I'm betting Republicans will be over-represented.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 28, 2009 18:53      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought this comment on the article Steen linked to was interesting

quote:
My theory is that party identification (for most people) hinges less on ideological principles, policy positions or "facts" and more on the "branding" of a particular party.

Republicans have been very successful at painting Democrats as sissies, group-hug, group-think, nanny-staters who will flinch in the face of the true dangers we face, whether that danger is economic, geo-political or military in nature. In other words, republicans and conservatives fancy themselves as hardscrabble, self-made, independent, prideful tough-guys--people who don't need "help". Democrats have a much more difficult time marketing their attitudes (i.e. informative debate, nuance, communal solutions, etc) because the liberal ideology is not, in and of itself, EMPOWERING and SELF-CONGR­ATULATING, the way that conservative ideology is.

To believe in off-the-shelf conservative principles is to believe that they apply and speak to your experience DIRECTLY. Conservatives believe in prideful, self-made, hardscrabble fantasies because this is the way they want to view THEMSELVES.

I believe the study is probably correct in it's conclusion that confronting these entrenched ideas with facts and figures will not work, precisely because those you would be arguing with DO NOT WANT YOU TO BE RIGHT. In a way, "convincing" them that your argument is a better one would cause them to have to rethink their own identity. That is a very difficult hurdle to clear.

One day they'll see sense, well we can dream anyway.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted October 29, 2009 02:46      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
.


____ Callipygous, heck they can't understand they lost.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 01, 2009 22:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's official, 51% of Republicans are nutters.

quote:
from tfa:
While only 13 per cent of Democratic Party supporters believe Obama was not born in the U.S., the proportion rises to 25 per cent among Independents and 51 per cent among Republican Party backers.



--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Geek 2U
Alpha Geek
Member # 28663

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 02, 2009 18:27      Profile for Mr. Geek 2U     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
It's official, 51% of Republicans are nutters.

quote:
from tfa:
While only 13 per cent of Democratic Party supporters believe Obama was not born in the U.S., the proportion rises to 25 per cent among Independents and 51 per cent among Republican Party backers.


Mr. Druid.

I will tell you what. I know that Republicans believe a lot of things I don't. I know that yes indeed!

Now please excuse me. The Great Pumpkin seems to have missed my patch this Halloween. I hope he is just late!

Got to go now. Have a great day!

Mr. Geek 2U!

--------------------
My friends call me Skippy

Posts: 260 | From: Kalamazoo | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 03, 2009 09:15      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
It's official, 51% of Republicans are nutters.

quote:
from tfa:
While only 13 per cent of Democratic Party supporters believe Obama was not born in the U.S., the proportion rises to 25 per cent among Independents and 51 per cent among Republican Party backers.


That poll seems a little fishy to me.

I've gotten more and more skeptical of polls over the years, and my general stance these days is to take all of them with a grain of salt, but particularly if my general experience contradicts the polling results.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time  
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0


homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam