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Author Topic: Any americans find this?
orion
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 14:02      Profile for orion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
just been on holiday to the states, and couldnt BELIVE the ammount of surcurity there was! its worse then in england, for sure. I didnt realize the americans had it that tight!
Posts: 123 | From: cambridge, england | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 14:12      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Security at the airports or just in general? Our airports and government buildings have beefed up security quite a bit in the last few years. As far as going to the cinema or walking down the street it doesn't seem any worse than England to me. (Disclaimer: I was in England once for three days, over four years ago, and spent most of that time in London. I have no idea what the rest of the country is like.)

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
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i_need_a_pillow
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 15:54      Profile for i_need_a_pillow     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There are quite a few security measures. I haven't noticed much of a change, but the last time I flew before 9/11 was in 6th grade (2000). I was learning to play the clarinet and brought my instrument with me; every airport stopped me at least once because they thought the clarinet was a pipe bomb.

Since 9/11, I've flown once, and it didn't seem much different.

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 16:43      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The airport near me is completely different since 9/11. One big change: now no one can go into the concourses and gates without a valid ticket. Before anyone could wander anywhere. That's a big change for that particular airport. Other minor changes include traffic monitoring at the entrance, random bag checks, etc.

The U.S. used to be laughed at by the world for lax (or non-existent) airport security. Some years ago, a French security group once audited an airport in the US (I don't remember which one) they were able to buy tickets under the name of the then world's most wanted terrorist, and they were able to smuggle a fake (but suspicious) "bomb" onto a flight without boarding the flight themselves. Hopefully the US has at least breached that wall of pathetic security.

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Ed Womack
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csk

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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 17:38      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orion:
just been on holiday to the states, and couldnt BELIVE the ammount of surcurity there was! its worse then in england, for sure. I didnt realize the americans had it that tight!

Yeah, I even heard that they were confiscating spellcheckers on the way back through! [Wink]

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6 weeks to go!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 21:01      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, the last time I flew was the week of Valentine's Day. I had my Allen wrench confiscated. That thing has more or less lived in my backpack for five years and they finally found it and took it away. I am sure everyone is now safer because I no longer have my allen wrench. :roll:

Airport security has been made to appear much tighter since 9/11. I am not sure the measures are effective. Every now and then you read about breaches. We aren't to the level of Belgium though. I passed through two checkpoints in Brussels. Once to get to the gates, and again halfway down the concourse. The dudes were very thorough but also very polite. Maybe we should send our TSA people overseas for lessons.

The people checking IDs at the ticket counters were also very uptight. They had me take off my glasses because my passport photo does not have me in glasses.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 21:41      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Flying a few days after the September 11 attack, aussie airport security took away my nail clippers.

<arab-accent>
Fly this plane into a building, or I'll cut your nails so short it'll really sting
</arab-accent>

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 21:51      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If I were the pilot I'd tell them I'd bitten my nails off already.

's truth too. :/

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 04:50      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I realise that one shouldn't bring anything inflammatory with you when you're flying to the US, but I didn't think they'd confiscate my copy of Origin of the Species! [Wink]

edit: they told me at the airport that I couldn't take anything sharp onboard - and I thought: "Well, there goes my dress sense!" (Boom! Boom! I kill myself sometimes. [Razz] )

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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sosumi
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 07:48      Profile for sosumi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
I realise that one shouldn't bring anything inflammatory with you when you're flying to the US, but I didn't think they'd confiscate my copy of Origin of the Species! [Wink]

Kansas has a big sheep population? [Razz]
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 09:30      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ewomack:
The airport near me is completely different since 9/11. One big change: now no one can go into the concourses and gates without a valid ticket. Before anyone could wander anywhere. That's a big change for that particular airport. Other minor changes include traffic monitoring at the entrance, random bag checks, etc.

The U.S. used to be laughed at by the world for lax (or non-existent) airport security. Some years ago, a French security group once audited an airport in the US (I don't remember which one) they were able to buy tickets under the name of the then world's most wanted terrorist, and they were able to smuggle a fake (but suspicious) "bomb" onto a flight without boarding the flight themselves. Hopefully the US has at least breached that wall of pathetic security.

Anecdotal data. One airport does not a pattern make.

I've heard stories on both sides of the equation.

It's entirely hit or miss, I think. We just hope they hit more than they miss. *shrug*

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 10:14      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Flying a few days after the September 11 attack, aussie airport security took away my nail clippers.

<arab-accent>
Fly this plane into a building, or I'll cut your nails so short it'll really sting
</arab-accent>

Now be fair, Druid. They're only supposed to confiscate nail clippers if they have that little nail-file thingee with the point on it. You know, one might threaten to stab someone with that tiny, dull, flimsy little thing and cause them distress.
[Roll Eyes]

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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magefile
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 10:14      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here's a repeated anecdote: I fly occasionally, probably 2-3 round trips a year (domestic). Because I'm in a wheelchair, I don't go through the metal detector, but I get patted down. Since 9/11, I've noticed that while the patdowns are more thorough (i.e., more than just "ok, I touched your shoulders, we're done"), they're still not very complete, and the way they search my wheelchair hasn't changed at all (i.e., just a quick glance-over, maybe run their hands around the bottom of the chassis).

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Let them be stupid - the market will sort it out.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 10:35      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think the security is a bit tover the top and is nothing more than window dressing to make passengers feel secure.

If you can get on a commercial airliner with no weapons you could easily:

Overpower a member of the flight crew and kill them with your bare hands or objects available in the cabin; wine bottle, armrest etc.

Kick the 're-inforced' cockpit door in and force the plane to the ground before anyone could stop you.

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(!) (T) = 8-D

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orion
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 10:53      Profile for orion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
erm...cap'n vic? ITS A RE-ENFORCED DOOR! its there to stop people kicking it in!
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 12:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:

If you can get on a commercial airliner with no weapons you could easily:

Overpower a member of the flight crew and kill them with your bare hands or objects available in the cabin; wine bottle, armrest etc.

Scary but true: we were having just this discussion in the office a while back, and a workmate demonstrated how to make a very nasty weapon out of things he'd just carried on a flight. Took about 15 seconds, and every one of the components looked perfectly innocent.

Lets face it, the only way to make flights secure is to make everyone travel in their pyjamas, with no carry-on luggage at all. And you'd have to find some way to recall the thousands of surface to air missiles the US government shipped to Ossama in Afghanistan when he was a 'freedom fighter'. Oh, and while you're at it, recall every sack of fertilizer in the world, and .......

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 13:06      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orion:
erm...cap'n vic? ITS A RE-ENFORCED DOOR! its there to stop people kicking it in!

quote:
Originally posted by orion:
erm...cap'n vic? ITS A RE-ENFORCED DOOR! its there to stop people kicking it in!

Maybe so. But it is a door, and I bet I could kick it in faily quickly. I was on a flight a few weeks ago and had a quick look at the cockpit door. It appeared to be the same old door; arbourite sheet over a one inch hollow core inner. An rigid aluminium band ran around edge. The re-enforcing consisted of a lock and some .02 stainless steel sheeting.

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(!) (T) = 8-D

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HalfVast

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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 17:00      Profile for HalfVast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
About a month back I went from Detroit to Minneapolis via Chicago. Getting on out and back was nothing unusual. Coat, shoes, change and belt into the tray and through the Xray with my bag (ok the shoe thing is silly). Wasn't as bad as I expected. I really just walked through a both ends leaving me without a good airport security story to tell.
quote:
Lets face it, the only way to make flights secure is to make everyone travel in their pyjamas, with no carry-on luggage at all.
That's it! Let's all fly naked! Well... except for that guy there. [Eek!]
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magefile
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2005 18:19      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why not? Why not make everyone come to the airport, change into paper clothing (like a hospital gown type thing or whatever) and check all their luggage? Especially with the move towards entertainment in the seatback (movies, internet, etc), it wouldn't be a bad idea. In the meantime, you could always buy a book or magazine in the post-security area of the airport.

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Let them be stupid - the market will sort it out.

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sumnchai
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 08:19      Profile for sumnchai     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Buy it with what? They'll have confiscated our coins since you could force someone to swallow a quarter-dollar and then they'd choke to death.

BTW - does anyone else find it ironic that they take your nailclippers and tweezers, but not your keys? I mean, my Volvo key is 2 inches long, serated, and would make a nasty wound. Plus, if I put a key between each finger (alá a homemade brassknuckles) I'm sure I could do quite a bit on damage to someone's soft tissue.

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magefile
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 09:18      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe pay for it ahead of time? Like it's included with the cost of the ticket, and you just tell the airline what size you want when you buy your ticket.

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Let them be stupid - the market will sort it out.

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ooby
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 09:31      Profile for ooby     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In self defense classes, instructors tell you to use keys as a weapon. In additions, some objects don't even need to be fashioned into weapons. Many objects can be used as weapons because A) they feel no pain, and B) they have less give than human body parts.

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orion
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 09:46      Profile for orion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I get that totaly
it would be pretty easy I think to beat someone to death with a suitcase. or metal object. or anything really.

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Stereo

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Icon 12 posted March 03, 2005 10:26      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Kinda reminds me of a story from a detective manga, where a woman used the underwire from her bra (previously sharpened) to kill someone in a plane. Went to the bathroom with the victim, took the wire from her bra, pushed the wire through his heart, leaving almost no marks. (I can't remember if the victim was sedated/drugged or not.)

It may not be realist, but I'm sure some people here will be more than happy with the thoughts they'll get from that story.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 10:57      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh...I've discussed this stuff with a number of people - it's practically a joke. I'm a white hat, but like many white hats, I'm capable of thinking like a black hat, and I can imagine a ton of ways stuff could be done with just carryon items. The only difference between myself and black hats is that I have no intent to act on them, nor will i disclose them, lest anyone get any bad ideas they wouldn't have had otherwise. Nevermind the fact that this is a public location, can be read by...um.../anyone/. Personally, I don't smoke anything, so I'm not in the mood for a good Cuban right about now. [Razz]

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