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Author Topic: Help with a chemical.
password
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Icon 5 posted March 29, 2009 10:29      Profile for password   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
does anyone know if there is a fluid that expands when brought into contact with an electrical current?

i have tried using Google to find one but it is proving most unhelpful in this situation.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 11:51      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DId you hear that there was one? I can't think of anzthing of the top of mz head. It is certainly not ourside the realm of possibility but i would think that this "expansion" would be due to temperature increase of this substance due to electrical resistance rather than moving electrons causeing a liquid to expand.

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password
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 12:02      Profile for password   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
the principle behind the expansion is not an issue, so thermal expansion would work. i have heard that some exist and I am trying to confirm/find such chemicals.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 12:09      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I would think tht most alcohols would do the trick for you. "depending oin what thier electrical resistance is. set up the voltage so that the electricity is transmitted, I have no idea the resitance of alcohols. As the alcohol warms it will expand. (watch out warm alcohols evaporates and burns!!!, you are over 18 right, or am I telling some kid to do something reallz dangerous and stupid?)

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

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password
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 12:30      Profile for password   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
don't worry about telling me stupid and dangerous things, one time i tried electrolysis and afterward i looked at a website about it and found out i was accidentally manufacturing chlorine gas.

and alcohol might work in that regard, but it wouldn't cool down fast enough after the current was removed. or rather interrupted because vaporized alcohol probably wouldn't conduct electricity.

I am looking more for a chemical that would be able to expand and then contract again without something like a wait time for alcohol to condense.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 23:28      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
More information would be useful regarding constraints. Liquids do not expand or contract much as a rule, so it is likely that you would be better off changing the volume using a piston or motorised syringe.
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 01:52      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________ password __ These leads may be on or off target.

There is a liquid made of Oil, and lead encased magnetic particles used in Machine Drive clutches. Apply electricity to the electro-magnet and the clutch engages. These are used to start very large loads.

There is a quartz used in lenses that responds to magnetic fields. the lens is in a coil and the application of power to the coil drives the lens from opaque to transparent, or the other way around. If driven with a saw tooth wave form it can become a high speed movie shutter.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 08:22      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The only material I know of that does this is a piezoelectric crystal, i.e. a solid. Can you not use a solid?

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password
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 12:33      Profile for password   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thanks for the help, but for this application a piston or syringe driven device would be much too bulky to allow for proper functioning, while a piezoelectric solid wouldn't be flexible enough. thanks for the help with the magnetic lenses but Ferrofluid is also out of the question for this.

the idea is to have a large series of flexible tubes full of this fluid, and through electrical stimulus cause them to act together like a muscle would. (IE: each fluid filled tube would act as a muscle fiber and the electricity would be the nerve impulse)

it might be possible to obtain a functionality like this with a gas as discussed earlier with the alcohol.

I greatly appreciate the current help, it is already more than i expected.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 14:18      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________ password __ I know that you have ruled out a syringe driven device.

Now think of a gum rubber tube filled with water. if you force more water into the tube it will swell in diameter and grow shorter just like a muscle. A bundle of these in parallel might give you the action you desire.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 23:36      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If You want a muscle, the way to go is not an expanding fluid filled tube but a bimetallic strip. heat it with current, to get it to flex, and then it coools quickly because it is a metal.

quote:
Originally posted by password:
thanks for the help, but for this application a piston or syringe driven device would be much too bulky to allow for proper functioning, while a piezoelectric solid wouldn't be flexible enough. thanks for the help with the magnetic lenses but Ferrofluid is also out of the question for this.

the idea is to have a large series of flexible tubes full of this fluid, and through electrical stimulus cause them to act together like a muscle would. (IE: each fluid filled tube would act as a muscle fiber and the electricity would be the nerve impulse)

it might be possible to obtain a functionality like this with a gas as discussed earlier with the alcohol.

I greatly appreciate the current help, it is already more than i expected.



--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
password
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Icon 1 posted April 05, 2009 13:05      Profile for password   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
@TheMoMan thanks for that idea, but the problem with the syringe idea is not the way it would function but the amount of equipment it would require on the other end. it would be too much for the application i am working on. thanks anyway.

@Ashitaka by bimetallic strips do you mean the kind that work as thermometers in thermostats? where there are two types of metal and they expand/contract at different rates bending the metal? this is an interesting approach but im not sure how well this would work. again the heat might be a problem but thanks for the different view, i hadn't thought of that yet.

EDIT: on second thought, bimetallic strips would be very good for this application but there would be quite a problem implementing them because they would be harder to cluster than expanding rubber tubes.

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