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Author Topic: Convert me, i want to see the light!
Spoongirl
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Icon 14 posted November 29, 2003 14:10      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i don't like Science.

that said, i've only ever studied it in school (which sucks, see post somewhere else for big long rant [Smile] ) and i want to be converted into at least someone who doesn't groan loudly and sigh every time its mentioned...

so convince me, tell me what you do thats sciencey and tell why me why its great.

i am a-listening.

love from the tin, Spoongirl [Wink]

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 15:10      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Science is good because:

It is as close to truth as we mere mortals get.
It is philosophical.
When doing it, you understand how the world works.
When doing it at my level, you understand things that no-one else, ever has.
You get to play with big shiny expensive toys.
Liquid nitrogen is fun (and applicable to problems in all sciences!
When you graduate with a science degree, people want to employ you.
There is a direct communication with the physical workd, unlike the arts, which has the abstract layer of the human mind.
There is right and wrong in science. In the arts there is only opinion.

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sconzey
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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 15:36      Profile for sconzey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
lol

Science rules... I guess its the idea that it is possible for us to understand and comprehend this vastly complex universe that God has made.

It is also insanely fun. A simple experiment: Drop some potassium into some water...

A more complex experiment: Mould some U-235 (I think its 235, correct me if I'm wrong) into two hemispheres. Pull the center tube out of a Dyson vacum cleaner and put one hemisphere at one end and the other at the other end. Pack C4 around both. Connect wires to the ends which go to a switch and a battery. Wrap this whole thing in brown paper, address it to the White House, and post!

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"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
--Isaac Asimov

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 16:08      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by sconzey:
Mould some U-235 (I think its 235, correct me if I'm wrong) into two hemispheres. Pull the center tube out of a Dyson vacum cleaner and put one hemisphere at one end and the other at the other end. Pack C4 around both. Connect wires to the ends which go to a switch and a battery. Wrap this whole thing in brown paper, address it to the White House, and post!

Send me a postcard from Guantanamo, Sconzey.

On second thoughts, don't.
I don't know you, never heard of you, never even heard of GC forums.

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Zwilnik

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 16:21      Profile for Zwilnik   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Science is great because it gives you an excuse to blow things up in all sorts of creative ways [Smile]

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The Universe is entirely made up of elements.
The most important of which is the element of surprise.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 18:52      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You get to play with radioactive stuff! Hear that Geiger sing!

You get to find the answer...and the 5000 new questions that come with it.

You'll never stop learning.

The world is so much more interesting when you understand what's really going on.

Did I ever mention how awesome it feels to make a discovery? Even something as relatively obscure as a tRNA base modification gene, it still rocks. You'll get your name on a paper and everything!

Working in a lab is like being in a commune, without the uniforms and "comrade" crap.

You get to play with toxic, corrosive stuff!

You can change the world.

You get to work with your hands.

You will find a new respect for nature, and life.

Dry ice is fun too. Especially in the sink.

You get to play with all kinds of crazy equipment, like X-rays, NMRs, flourimeters, etc. Unless your name is Xanthine and you seem to be relegated to steady-state enzyme kinetics. Two rotations in a row now, plus the work I did as an undergrad. Do I hear the slow grind of destiny or what? :/

The mistakes you make can easily become wild stories to amaze your friends, especially when they involve anything radioactive, corrosive, toxic, or d) all of the above.

I'd say more but I'm hungry. [Smile]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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supergoo

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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 20:21      Profile for supergoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
honestly, if you don't like science that much, then don't try to force yourself to like it. i've tried to force myself to be a bookish person and enjoy reading novels, but it's just not happening; i'm more of a math and science person than an english person. you seem to be the opposite.
However, if you read science textbooks for yourself you may find that you like science a lot more than you think. I wasn't too interested in math until i took an algebra 2 correspondence course over the summer--that's when i fell in love with it. but the main thing is to never keep your options closed, because you never know when new ones will arise.

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Y los sueños, sueños son.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted November 29, 2003 23:10      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you like books, and want to get into science read Isac Asimov's Understanding Physics.

The coolest part about science isn't the blowing things up, or the fancy toys (though those are cool to), it is all about that moment when you realize something for yourself because of what is really happening not because someone told you. Galilleo dropping fruit on the table in front of the bishops at an important dinner.

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Spoongirl
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Icon 10 posted November 30, 2003 00:27      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yeah, you're right, i'm more bookish than sciencey, but i am trying very hard to like it, so as to not offend. [Smile] .
A lot of the Sciencey jobs sound quite cool, but i'm not going to get very far into them if i can't get decent grades at this 'easy' level i'm at now, am i? [cry baby]
Personally i'd rather have opinion than right or wrong, because i am an opinionated person and hate very much to be told i am wrong!
but keep going, you're winning me over gently i think! [Razz]

love from the biscuit tin, Spoongirl [Wink]

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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sconzey
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 09:31      Profile for sconzey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Woo... The nuke thing was a joke btw... [blush] Just thought I'd clear that up...

Chill about grades. The way you are going about it is good, once you have an interest in a subject, you will begin to read up and research it more. In class you will tend to pay more attention, and good grades will naturally follow.

I mean, some people are just naturally good at things like science, even though they may not like it, but for most of us, interest came first and ability followed.

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"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
--Isaac Asimov

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d3m057h3n35
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 10:45      Profile for d3m057h3n35     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
science is great when you look at the work of those before you and realize how much sense it makes. it lets you identify with newton, einstein, faraday, maxwell, feynman, aristotle, galileo, rutherford, bohr, pauling, and so on. discovering something for yousrelf that's already been discovered before is still surprisingly satisfying.

even better is when you discover something previously unknown. it's easy to do this when you create things in music, art, and literature, etc. in science it is incredibly difficult, which is why all good science is as elegant and beautiful as the rare parts of artistic creation worth experiencing.

one needs no conversion to be a scientist. all you need is to look around and ask yourself,

how?

which is the first step to answering the question,

why?

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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 11:04      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
okay, it is not very easy to create something new in the arts. it's so hard, so many people are all 'artistic', something you do that you think is original has probably been done before.

but i sort of see what you mean with science... i just think that truth is not nessicerily (no, i don't know how to spell it) found by testing things, and looking at results. true human discovery comes from the soul, from passion, and i just don't see science as having that. inner discovery seems so much more important to me than outer. i just don't feel the need to ask 'how are the stars?' or 'why are the stars?' its enough to know that they are there and beautiful and can be admired. science kills belief. doesn't make that belief untrue, but it seems to think that it does. sorry, i don't think i'm going to be convinced.

love from the tin, Spoongirl [Wink]

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 11:19      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One reason to like science:

You can explain why your cats are named Schrödinger and Oppenheimer.

 -

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I must first reveal my personal bias in this discussion, since I worship at the 'First Church of PDF Really Sucks.'
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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 11:52      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i have read that book about cats and i was thoroughly disillusioned by the title...
[Smile] only kidding, thats a part of science that i find really fascinating actually. hmm, better work from there...

love from the tin, Spoongirl [Wink]

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 11:53      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -
heehee!

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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sconzey
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 14:14      Profile for sconzey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmmm.... Oooookay....

Schrödinger's cat rules... The first time I read about it I was nine and I just didn't get it...

Heisenburg(sp?) is another good one, particularly for disproving the possibility of a disassemble/reassemble teleportation device...

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"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
--Isaac Asimov

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Stereo

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Icon 6 posted November 30, 2003 14:16      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Computer science is great. Robotic is cool.

With the former, you get to write instructions for a robot, wich can be likened to writing music. It can be done in a long, complicated and ugly way, or a nice, well thought, great sounding way. And the great part over music is, it plays by itself, you don't have to be a great operator (musician) to have it work the way it should. And add user-interface development, and that's visual arts as an extra.

The latter is one step beyond, as you get to teach not stupid, static machines how to behave, but nice little - or big powerfull - moving machines how to execute something. If you wish, I can dig some wild research done in the field.

Electric and electronic engineering are simple yet powerfull. There are (relatively) few formulas to learn, but you can make just about anything with them.

You need more poetry? Try environmental engineering, and get to know the symbiose of the living and inert. Repair damage done by stupid people, or prevent it altogether. And field work is really field work.

You prefer animals over mankind, maybe. Try zoology. Or the other way around: ethnology. Hydrology to follow a drop of rain from the mountain to the ocean. Oceanography to get on the edge of mankind's other frontier. Want to fly? That's aeronautics.

And so on...

Science is a lot more than chemistry and physics. If you want to like science, search for your own passion, then find the science that goes with it. Easy. Enjoy. (And blow something up, would it only be your own limits.)

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 19:15      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Spoongirl:
i just don't feel the need to ask 'how are the stars?' or 'why are the stars?' its enough to know that they are there and beautiful and can be admired. science kills belief. doesn't make that belief untrue, but it seems to think that it does. sorry, i don't think i'm going to be convinced.

love from the tin, Spoongirl [Wink]

Ah, but while beautiful they are to the naked eye, even more pretty when seen closer up. And then knowing that they are other suns of distant worlds makes you realize that there is just SOOOOO much in the universe. With all the wonders of the universe to think about, only the boring people get bored. If we assume that our solar system isn't unique that we're average, that means most stars would support at least one race of intellegent being sometime in it's life. That means that there is millions of cutures waiting to be found.

Arguing that you don't need to know why, or how is like arguing that knowing about a peice of music doesn't add to it. For instance, take Mahler I. During his time he was known as a great conductor, not a composer, but to appease him into staying at their concert halls they'd let him write and perform his own work every once in a while. The audience would hate it, critics would set pen to paper and they STILL haven't stopped writting. One of the most memorable melodies of Mahler is when you transposed "Are you Sleeping" to a minor key, slowed the tempo WAAAAY DOWN and added embelissments. One of the embellisments is the constant slow beat on kettle drums, and another is a famous Clarinet and Oboe (think it was written for the Oboe originally) solo that is often used in auditions. Seeing behind the curtian like this in music works the same way as in science. It only adds the beauty of the thing.

Understanding why something works the way it does only adds more mystery to the thing. Alright, so there is this "force" that holds us to the earth called gravity, what is it? How does it work? Can Gravity travel as fast as light? Yes, science does sometimes force us to disregard old beliefs as we disprove things, but we are always left with other questions to guess answers to, and then more tests to do.

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Orpheus
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 19:32      Profile for Orpheus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was gonna post a big long thing but it wound up being more of a rant that in the end didn't have much to do with the original purpose. Soo, I'll just give this phrase that has been proven true for me more often than not:

Truth is stranger than fiction.

ooh ooh just thought of this one:

The world around us is like a fully stocked library. It seems a terrible waste to not at least browse.

-Orpheus

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my cats make me crazy

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Elvermere
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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 23:18      Profile for Elvermere     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is so much disinformation about science, quite ironic that. Science is much more about a WAY of thinking, a process, rather than a subject. It's easy to get bogged down and think of science as biology or chemistry or computing. But really it's about a method of analysing what is around you.

In particular, I think that everyone thinks scientifically. For example, you get offered a price for a new motherboard (had to get a geeky think in there somewhere). You think about it, go online and research a cost from an online provider. You find out that it is cheaper online. Hence, you have employed scientific principle in an everyday occurance.

School, and University/College, miss this point sometimes. And even at the low levels it's not science, it's rote learning. Yes, you need this understanding so you don't repeat other scientists experiments, but there is nothing wrong with that either.

So, if you are studying science as a subject, it's cool that you dislike it (or don't care about it). It's only the procedure that is important.

And remember. There is no right and wrong in science, only disproved and not yet disproved.

Cheers

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 30, 2003 23:39      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I found the stars more beautiful after I understood what they really are. The distances are amazing, as are the physics. And dman can tell you how awestruck I get when I look at a leaf. So many processes, all working together to produce this one incredible thing...and I can visualize it, and wonder how parts of it work.

Like Elvermere said, science is more of a thought process than anything else. Unfortunately, while they harp on the scientific method through HS and beyond, they don't atually train you to apply it until you're an upperclassman in college.

If the thought process involved isn't for you, it isn't for you. Nothing we can say will change that. Since you and scince seem to be a bad fit, why do you even want to be converted?

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted December 01, 2003 10:37      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Spoongirl:
i don't like Science.

that said, i've only ever studied it in school (which sucks, see post somewhere else for big long rant [Smile]

It's because you did science in school.

All right, here's my take from one non-scientist to another:

- If you bake pies and cakes, you're a chemist.
- If you make bread, you're doing an experiment in biology.
- If you ever added an ice cube to a hot cup of tea or broth to cool it faster, you're a physicist.

Perhaps it was the passionless dumbasses that taught you. If you've never seen the "shooting the dropping monkey from the tree" experiment in the classroom, you had a bad teacher. If your teacher never brought in liquid nitrogen and froze something with it, you had a bad teacher. If you never made a solar cooker, if you never created silly putty, if you never saw a sharp beam of light split into a rainbow, if you never went collecting plants, if you never watched a teacher electroplate a penny with silver using silver solution and electricity, then Spoonie, you were hosed.

I suggest you start light. Go see if your library has Super Science Concoctions: 50 Mysterious Mixtures for Fabulous Fun (Williamson Kids Can! Series) by Jill Frankel Hauser Michael Kline. The experiments explain what they're doing and why it works, but it's actually fun, and you get to make some neat stuff.

I understand your hatred of science. I loved it when I was young, but the presentation of science from 7th grade to senior year in High School was an experiment in trying to stay awake and not understanding frog and foetal pig guts. The texts were as dry as my mother's turkey [see tofurkey rant for details] and would often present new terms and ideas with no explanation or definition.

Oh, and going to class the day after my dog ate my team's preserved lamb heart. That was a very embarassing day.

Jess

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted December 01, 2003 11:27      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin]

i know theres a lot of parts to science, its so big, but i don't really like any of them. ah well. seems like thers at least one other person who doesn't really take to it much. i sort of understand it on a practical level, but i don't like classwork. and i guess i'm too lazy/stubborn/have lost the will to study to slog away at this level for too long.

but yeah, i think i like practical little kids science, because thats fun and interesting. does that mean i'm immature? or is it endearing? or is it just stupid? ho hum.

well, at least we've found some aspect of science i like - silly experiments for 10-year olds. thats what my science lessons
in my junior school were like. its when i got to high school (age 11) that they became so very dull. no experimenting whatsoever, just cutting stuff up, which as a vegetarian, i found sickening.

love from the tin, Spoongirl [Wink]

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"And we will call it... This Land..."

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Orpheus
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Icon 1 posted December 01, 2003 20:47      Profile for Orpheus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its always nice to be able to apply what you learn. Here's another book that could let you do that... it could also just let you build engines to launch tubers and gourds vast distances.

Though it would be nice if everyone actually learned a few basic principles about how the world around them and life itself works. Especially the policy makers who go around passing laws over things they know little to nothing about... that would be nice. *grumble mumble bitch moan*

sorry went a bit off topic there...

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my cats make me crazy

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted December 02, 2003 07:33      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm used to go for the long, winding, but scenic road when trying to explain a feeling - it seems I can't get rid of my lyric tendencies. (And I don't want to.)

I wasn't trying to explain that there are many sciences to choose from, but that one should find passion for a subject first, then get to the science behind. This is, IMHO, the best way to like science.

Xanthine is right when she says that not everyone can get a scientific way of thinking, but those who don't at all are few. Most people can acquire it.

I'm sorry you have/had bad science teachers, but it's not the end of it all. Find a science mentor, or a science club, or any way to use science and have fun with it, and you'll soon find out that you've learnt those formulas as a side-effect.

Post-Thanksgiving comparison: One could compare formulas to turkey. All by itself, it's dry and hard to digest, but with the right sauce and/or stuffing, it's a pleasure (for non-veg[etari]an people, at least).

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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