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Author Topic: I'm Convinced That Anti-Gravity Exists!
GMx

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Icon 14 posted December 12, 2002 05:53      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I posted about a book a long time ago called The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside The Classified World Of Anti-Gravity by Nick Cook, a writer for Jane's Defense Weekly (the bible for the defense industry). I finally found it at the library and read it. It has made me totally convinced that anti-gravity technology does exist and the testing of some of the aircraft using this technology could be behind some of the so-called UFO sightings in the desert aea of Nevada. It also seems that the Nazis that the U.S. stole this technology from may have been working on a crude time machine! This all seems like it is preposterous, but if you read the book, it makes some sense. The German scientists were working in an area that no one else had been because they did not let their minds be closed by preconceptions. Since we still don't know what gravity is , and only have theories about that, it is obvious that we haven't explored anti-gravity enough. [Beard of Peter Gabriel!]
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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2002 07:28      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
so-called UFO sightings
Army Soldier: You say you saw a UFO?
Farmer: Yes, it was over there... It had a big red light on the bottom, and it was flying real low. Did you pick it up on radar?
Army Soldier: Yes, we did. We couldn't identify it, but we don't think it was a UFO.
Farmer: If you haven't indentified it, wouldn't it be a UFO?
Army Soldier: I guess that is why they call me militart intelligence.

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NefariousAnthony
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2002 14:14      Profile for NefariousAnthony   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
you know . . . I remember reading in some sort of technology or science magazine (no, not a tabloid) that the US government has found this guy who claims to have found the secret to anti-gravity. So they gave him a million dollars and a year to prove it. I guess that if anything happens, we'll find out with in a few years.

However, I think the guy is a nut.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2002 16:33      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by NefariousAnthony:
you know . . . I remember reading in some sort of technology or science magazine (no, not a tabloid) that the US government has found this guy who claims to have found the secret to anti-gravity. So they gave him a million dollars and a year to prove it. I guess that if anything happens, we'll find out with in a few years.

However, I think the guy is a nut.

You might be thinking of John Hutchinson. He's flaky, but I wouldn't call him a nut. He's in the book. He was able to disrupt the molecules of different metals with massive doses of electrical energy until they exploded. This was named the Hutchinson Effect. It also turned steel into lead. He wasn't able to control the effect of the anti-gravitation though, that's one of the reasons the government dropped him and probably started a disinformation campaign against him because they wanted to keep the destructive powers of the experiment a secret.
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GMx

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Icon 14 posted December 12, 2002 20:19      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From:Jane's Defense Weekly" Boeing, the world’s largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware." [Razz]
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Charisma
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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2002 17:20      Profile for Charisma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And I am currently developing flying pigs with tiny litttle saddles so I can ride them to school. No more gas money... Damn you Exxon!

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GMx

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Icon 8 posted December 13, 2002 19:51      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, you're a real expert in physics I bet. [Razz]
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MrMachineCode
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Icon 13 posted December 13, 2002 20:40      Profile for MrMachineCode     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GMx:
Yeah, you're a real expert in physics I bet. [Razz]

You have little room to criticize--you're the one who brought up UFO's.

Nevermind, I believe in the possibility of some pretty wild things myself, but I think it's also important to insist on proof and logical explanations. What you said about the Hutchinson effect blowing apart molecules makes sense--if you had enough voltage to suck all the valence electrons off the constituent atoms, there wouldn't be anything left to hold the molecules together. But I'm not sure I believe the part about transmutating steel into lead. HOW does it transmutate the elements in the steel?

As for antigravity, it only really takes energy to lift things. It doesn't take any energy to keep my coffee cup on my desk, nor does the cup take any more energy while it's setting on the corner of my desk than when it's in the middle. So why CAN'T I put my coffee cup in empty space 6 inces off the corner of my desk and make it stay there?

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2002 21:40      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't say I believed in UFO's. [Razz] I'm not sure if it was steel. It could have been some other kind of metal, not an alloy. Just read the book and the links.*sigh*
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GMx

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Icon 4 posted December 14, 2002 04:46      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here are some links for you non-believers:

NPR's Fresh Air :Teri Gross interviews Nick Cook. (You need RealPlayer)

Random House : A summary of the book.

Or you can just e-mail the man himself at [email protected] and ask all the questions you want.

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Charisma
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Icon 1 posted December 14, 2002 18:08      Profile for Charisma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
physics? yeah... things with wings can fly and things cannot float (yet). Who's violating physics now, you physics-violater, you.

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GMx

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Icon 8 posted December 14, 2002 20:29      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just quit trolling A-hole. If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything. It's obvious you haven't read any of the links or have any inkling what I'm talking about. I'm talking about anti-gravity technology , not levitating like some swami. [Mad]
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Max Heck
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Icon 1 posted December 14, 2002 21:55      Profile for Max Heck     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll start by saying that I haven't read the book. Usually my libary gets it's bulk from the spavined offerings of used-book sales. But I've read a few reviews, and there's a reason I didn't rush out and buy the book...

#1) from what I understand there's a lot of "I'd tell you the sources, but I'm sworn to secrecy" in the book. That to me always raises a red flag when controversial claims are made. Had I a nickle for every claim of government coverup or conspiracy theory that said this or that but provided absolutely no way to confirm or deny the claim...

#2) A lot has been made about Nick Cook working for JDW. Hundreds of people have written for JDW, and (correct me if I'm wrong) JDW doesn't endorse the book in any way.

Names and jobs mean little. Everyone has their own axe to grind.

There was this guy by the name of William Shockley who won a Nobel prize as co-inventor of the transistor when he was at Bell Labs. Smart guy, so far as his field...

So what did he do with the money? Went around lecturing about eugenics and race, with a somewhat less than objective view. A rather racist view, actually. BUT, since he was a Nobel prize winning physicist people gave him a listen.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, creator of Sherlock Holmes, endorsed some pretty blatant hoaxes involving spiritualists and fairies. Same deal... Since this person has a name for themselves, then they must know about whatever.

So here's a guy who worked for a prestigious magazine, therefore...

>"The German scientists were working in an area that no one else had been because they did not let their minds be closed by preconceptions."

Whew.... Where to begin? Heidelburg was THE center of physics in the beginning of last century, but once the Nazi party took over pretty much anyone who could left the country.

I can't say since I wasn't there, but it's my understanding that one didn't get very far within the Nazi scientific establishment unless your thinking was constrained within the limits of Nazi philosophy. In other words, they had to be much more careful about contstraints than those outside the Reich's reach.

>"Since we still don't know what gravity is , and only have theories about that, it is obvious that we haven't explored anti-gravity enough."

That *almost* sounds like you believe no one's been researching gravity in the last century or so, GMx. [Smile]

Gravity has been one of the thorniest problems of physics for quite a while, and there have been oh.... one or two people working on it. Or maybe that's thousands of people... Believe me, I suspect that every physics grad student would LOVE to be the one who unifies gravity with the other fundamental forces. And I can guarantee you that very few of these people work in military bunkers and are sworn to secrecy.

Do I think that some Nazi genius could have unraveled gravity? Well, I cannot rule it out, BUT... Keeping it secret for over 1/2 a century is a trick, and not having someone else reach the same conclusions is even more of a trick, and given the fact that the same mathematics are open to every person who's ever taken up the question... Hmmm. No, I personally don't think so. And before someone convinces me of such exceptional claims, they will have to come up with some exceptional evidence.

Max.

Mathematics and Physical Law ar the original Open Source apps.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2002 07:41      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I guess Jane's at least endorses the idea of anti-gravity tech, as they let Nick Cook report that Boeing is working on it. Some of the principles of anti-grav may already be in use in the B-2 Stealth bomber to reduce drag.
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Lex
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2002 09:12      Profile for Lex   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Or maybe it's just using a gyroscopic reactionless drive for that.

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Max Heck
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2002 10:47      Profile for Max Heck     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no doubt that Boeing is working on A-grav. I seem to remember reading somewhere that NASA is too. But that doesn't mean that they've gotten anywhere, and "working on it" doesn't equal "billion-dollar-crash-research-program"

"Working on it" more likely equals "gave some guy a small grant to see what happened and made sure that we control the patents if this fruitcake actually does come up with something"

Don't get me wrong... I want A-grav and ZPE tech so badly that it hurts my knobby little brain... It would be SOOOOO COOOOOOOOLLLL!!!! However, the more I read of such things, the more I question.

Max.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2002 13:29      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
O.K. Let me qualify all this: Scientists have found a way to make anti-gravity work, it's just that they haven't been able to make it work on a large enough scale where it could propel an aircraft. You can actually buy kits that you can put together (although some of them would not operate on what could be called true anti-gravity). Information Unlimited has some of these and some books on the subject as well, but I think the books tend towards the "nutty" side.
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GeekAvenger
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Icon 4 posted December 21, 2002 23:25      Profile for GeekAvenger   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anti-Gravity concepts while good, are some what flawed because of one thing: if it was true you would be flying as quickly away from objects of mass just as fast as you would be flying towards them, if used on earth, you would shoot away from it as quickly as you would fall if dropped 10 kilometres up. But i can see one thing: If you used a small area of anti gravity you would fall quickly towards the surface, then as the feild contacted the surface, the A.G. would kick in and shoot you awy agin, so you would be forever going up and down.

I've just realised one thing- opposite things nullify each other (like matter and anti-matter) so pehaps the same thing would happen- you would just hover.

(please don't contradict me too much, i'm going well for what i've grasped of yr 7 science [Smile] )

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 15, 2003 04:37      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GeekAvenger:
I've just realised one thing- opposite things nullify each other (like matter and anti-matter) so pehaps the same thing would happen- you would just hover.


No, you wouldn't hover.
The earth actually rotates quite fast (1000 miles/hour at the equator) so if t wasn't for the gravity, you'd be spun off into space something fierce.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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eDJ
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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2003 22:49      Profile for eDJ     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think anti-gravity will track the same way aviation did. Presently a-g is in it's infancy with Mag-Lev trains.(so far as I know, but I've seen those on TV) These may be to anti-gravity what dirigibles were in air travel.

Now on to the question of reincarnation....as many of us may not be around to see anti-gravity
replace petroleum using motor vehicles in our life time. Should a-g become a viable technology
for conveyance in the future, would astral projection obsolete it too in time? Well, for this lifetime getting around the world on the net is more than I expected. Someday we may have a scanner booth beside our computer to e-mail ourselves to where we want to go??? [Big Grin]
eDJ

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Lex
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Icon 1 posted January 28, 2003 03:54      Profile for Lex   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
antigravity != maglev.

While it may be possible to generate antigravity using electromagnetic forces (since all the forces are related, or at least we like to think so), this is just basic magnetic repulsion.

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Your conviction that there is a monster under the bed would be a mere eccentricity if you weren't so heavily armed and it was your own bed.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted January 28, 2003 05:25      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GeekAvenger:

I've just realised one thing- opposite things nullify each other (like matter and anti-matter) so pehaps the same thing would happen- you would just hover.


Not true of magnets, is it? If you put two North-South magnets opposite-end to end, you still end up with a North-South magnet. (And before you ask - I know, every magnet is North-South - there are no monopoles.)

Oh, and just for the record - there is absolutely no such thing as anti-gravity. The gravitational force is always attractive.

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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted January 28, 2003 05:29      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i think people have been reading too much low-quality science fiction...

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there were so many stains on the road. squashed miss mitten-shaped stains in the universe. squashed frog-shaped stains in the universe. squashed crows that tried to eat the squashed frog-shaped stains in the universe. squashed dogs...

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted January 28, 2003 05:32      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by cheezi git:
i think people have been reading too much low-quality science fiction...

Yeah - they wanna read the good shit... like one of my practical write-ups. [Wink]

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2003 16:19      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GMx:
I posted about a book a long time ago called The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside The Classified World Of Anti-Gravity by Nick Cook, a writer for Jane's Defense Weekly (the bible for the defense industry). I finally found it at the library and read it. It has made me totally convinced that anti-gravity technology does exist and the testing of some of the aircraft using this technology could be behind some of the so-called UFO sightings in the desert aea of Nevada. It also seems that the Nazis that the U.S. stole this technology from may have been working on a crude time machine! This all seems like it is preposterous, but if you read the book, it makes some sense. The German scientists were working in an area that no one else had been because they did not let their minds be closed by preconceptions. Since we still don't know what gravity is , and only have theories about that, it is obvious that we haven't explored anti-gravity enough. [Beard of Peter Gabriel!]

First off, I don't believe that any form of time machine will ever exists for the simple matter that if one was ever invented then we'd know about it now, since somebody would inevitably get back here and eventually spill the beans.

As for anti-gravity? I believe in Autie Em, so why not?

There may be some crude version of it, but if it were working at all, then it would make it into the commercial sector pretty quickly. The profit motive would dictate it. I don't believe anybody's going to sit around with this extra-special secret just to win a war or take over the world. That would be so only if the value of this technology were only militaristic.

The normal path is for technology is to migrate from the private sector into the military sector. You could point out all the technolgy NASA developed that migrated from government research back into the private sector, but even then the developers were looking down the road at how they could market their technology for commercial use.

You're still going to make a lot more money selling TANG at $2.00 a jar to hundreds of millions of people than selling a single ounce of the stuff for millions.

This idea that the government rounds up the smart physicists and holds them in hangar fifty-whatever until, like mokeys writing War and Peace, they come up with some astounding development is odd, and only happened during actual war time with "the bomb." Know, too that outside of Iraq or North Korea selling the things to terrorists, the market for things that annihilate the planet are of little commercial value. Commercial use of nuclear technology, however, spread rapidly.

I'm afraid that if anybody were close to the anti-G tech that could make pigs fly, we'd have heard about Swine Air, Inc. already.

One thing for certain, we have capitalists running this country.

Colonel Panic

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