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Author Topic: Simpsonian Rant
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2003 12:44      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by weensicka:
quote:
Originally posted by Limac333:
Here's a thought, the French helped us win The Revolutionary War. So lets all be patriotic and boycott the country that has given us the possibility to be patriotic in the first place. That idea is asinine.

Not exactly--there's roughly 220 years of history and foreign policy to contend with in between. For instance, France didn't really help us (Lafayette was good and all, but he mostly helped Washington based on his own recognizance and out of his own fortune) until later in the revolution, mostly with a recognition of our sovereignty as a nation and with naval help along with Spain. Of course, during the 1789 French revolution, most of their ideals were based on what the Americans had already done; we helped them out financially with that until the Reign of Terror.

And I know every American brings up WWII at the drop of a hat, but we did pay back a heck of a lot of debt then and since France was then in it's Fifth Republic with De Gaulle, the French of the 20th century were very different from the French of the 17th century. De Gaulle initially started the bad blood between our current countries because he and Truman and later Eisenhower had very different opinions. De Gaulle was also angry at the Versailles treaty after WWII because the Americans didn't advocate harsher demands for reparations like France wanted (a la WWI); I think we also upset a lot of people, diplomatically, with the Marshall Plan since Stalin wasn't exactly anyone's friend.

Not that I agree with hating anyone for any reason, least of all because of their nationality. I know a good deal of really offensive Americans and I'm still patriotic. It's foolish to bastardize an entire country because of a few actions. I've heard recently too that France's president is steadily gaining unpopularity because of his remarks--not that France now supports us, but I think the French believe he's been acting undiplomatically, much like many of us criticize Dubya's ham-fisted approach to foreign relations. Just my 2 cents.

The way I hear it, we're still paying off Tommy Jeff's bar tab, and Benjamin's bordello bill.

Those guys, KNEW how to celebrate independance.

Colonel Panic

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weensicka
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2003 22:50      Profile for weensicka   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
TMBWITW,PB :
Well, I've been to Fargo, Univ. of Kansas and I've been through Nebraska on a horribly, horribly extensive train voyage. I appreciate the midwest certainly, but as a New Englander I realize that I have a very skewed way of looking at the world. In fact, I really like U of K, especially their basketball team (why, why did you lose?!!) The Louisiana remark was intended as a tongue-in-cheek comment, and perhaps it was a bad one. I meant nothing seriously by it. Although, having been in LA as well, bad bad things happened to my friends and I there simply, I think, because we were "a bunch of damned Yankees".


[QUOTE]Originally posted by CrawGator:
Now look here, if anybody here is going to put down Louisiana, it should be a resident.
CrawGator, apologies especially to you; a true native should be the one to criticize his/her state. [Smile]

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weensicka
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2003 23:06      Profile for weensicka   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
The way I hear it, we're still paying off Tommy Jeff's bar tab, and Benjamin's bordello bill.

Those guys, KNEW how to celebrate independance.[/QB]

Hey, what about Massachusetts native General Joseph Hooker, Union commander and known womanizer; he allowed his troops to be, shall we say, "entertained" by certain women in New Orleans. Didn't you ever wonder why prostitutes were called "hookers"?

PS: your avatar amuses me endlessly. [Smile]

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Is there any tea on this spaceship?

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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2003 08:23      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
quote:
Originally posted by cheezi git:
it is always easier to find reasons to hate people rather than like them. especially if one has no experience of them. i don't understand why hate comes easier to mankind than love, although it would explain the prolifence of wars. it is more convenient to diss people who have a different point of view or agenda to oneself, but try to put yourself in the other's position. often you realise why they are taking the stance they take, and why they are putting forward views different to one's own. minorities can frequently have very solid, substantial reasons for having what appears on the surface to be awkward view points. when one is threatened culturally, physically or religeously there are only more often than not but two options: fight or surrender. in the light of this, things become clearer.

people of all creed, colour and persuasion are EASY to hate. it is only our laziness that prevents us from loving them.

peace, love and cheez to all

Sounds like a buncha tree-huggin' hippy shit to me. Who the Hell let you out of the commune, Star Child!? [Wink]
fuck off capitalist nazi. it's people like you who, who don't stop at zebra crossings, who, um...don't tip in restaurants, and who...well do lots of nasty things. i rest my logical and well-thought out case!

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SupportGoddess

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2003 07:35      Profile for SupportGoddess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
French toast is sounding pretty good about now. I guess it's breakfast time.
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perfectstormy

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Icon 14 posted April 24, 2003 11:35      Profile for perfectstormy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
French toast is sounding pretty good about now. I guess it's breakfast time.

Make it with Challa bread--it's really good!
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DrPepper
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2003 16:57      Profile for DrPepper     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
French toast is sounding pretty good about now. I guess it's breakfast time.

I'll take my french toast with a side of freedom of speach.
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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2003 03:43      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by cheezi git:
fuck off capitalist nazi. . .i rest my logical and well-thought out case!

Well, I always looked at it as the democrats being the nazis. They're always pushing for a strong federal government, the republicans are the ones who *generally* support deregulation (as long as you ignore Big Bro [shake head] ).

I need to get a scanner, so everybody can see the card I got from the FBI lady [Eek!] . Heehee, I'm red-flagged now! w00t! No Presidency for me!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2003 08:05      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:

This is particularly true of French-Canadians, who I truly believe come into being after a jackass dies and does not make it into heaven; instead he or she must wander the French part of Canada for the rest of eternity, annoying other inhabitants and others who cross their path.

Oh dear.

/me runs away, hides last name and paternal grandfather's side of family (yes, I am that much of a mutt)

Better now?

Actually, they did pack up and run for the Black Hills four or five generations back, so maybe I'm not so tainted after all. But seriously, my French ancestry is blatantly present on my birth certificate, driver's license, and all other official documents, so all the French-bashing these days makes me a bit, ah, squirmy.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2003 16:11      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by weensicka:
I've heard recently too that France's president is steadily gaining unpopularity because of his remarks

I've heard the exact opposite and that his popularity has soared, though the business community in France is worried by the popular boycott of French products in the US.

I heard some US politician on the radio here in the UK only yesterday, still berating the French like they were naughty children that needed a whipping, and the more of this I hear the more of a francophile I become.

I too used to entertain a cordial dislike of the French. This is partly simple jealousy, as my visits to France have convinced me that it is perhaps the best place to live on earth and the smug bastards there certainly know it, but also because in most international situations, the French nearly always opt for the position with the greatest narrow national advantage rather than take a moral view on anything. Fair play means zilch to them. And as the good colonel has pointed out, though individually they can be hugely charming, en masse they can be annoying little turds.

But if I have to choose between the overweaning bullying hectoring self righteous American Empire and the European leader with the guts to oppose them it's no choice.

Vive la France!

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2003 19:16      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
But if I have to choose between the overweaning bullying hectoring self righteous American Empire and the European leader with the guts to oppose them it's no choice.

WTF does hectoring mean?

And another way to look at it is, Chirac is trolling. I mean, they basically just go against whatever the Americans want, just to do so. Isn't that trolling?

Vive la Trolle!

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2003 19:20      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also don't think that you have a right to call America self-righteous when you're talking about France. I mean, yeah, America is self-righteous, but just as much as France. I think America and France are the two most self-righteous countries in the world.

And can you really refer to Chirac as a European leader? I was under the impression that everyone but the French (and a third of them) hated him.

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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 02:59      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Slurpy:
WTF does hectoring mean?


hectoring, definition of: time to get an education and open the covers of a dictionary

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GMx

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Icon 10 posted April 30, 2003 03:01      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 03:07      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
just to add my half dozen:

does anyone else think that the management of the post-combat situation has been derisory?

what sort of people send troops into a country without a half-hour lecture on the culture, including such minor points as:

1. you may find lots of people in the streets on a friday. this their holy day and they get a bit pissed off if you try to stop them kneeling down, and shoot a few. don't worry, this isn't a demonstration, it's religeon

2. is it so hard to give soldiers a brief lesson in arabic, so they can say things like stop, come here, or even maybe hello, goodbye and thank you? it might stop a young jerk of a soldier from shooting a family dead, because they don't speak english, and don't know what stop means.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 03:32      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is utterly pointless to allow the events of the past few weeks alter one's opinion of entire nations and their cultures. Chirac is only acting with the fiscal interests of France at heart (as every other French president in history has done). Bush, similarly, is merely honouring the elements that projected him into power as well. In neither case is there the manifestation of any collective will - yet the ubiquitous knee-jerk generalisations that one hears would have you believe that to be true.

France is still a beautiful country, with vast mountains, glorious beaches, and superior soccer players: if you impose embargos or tarriffs - you will only be adversely effecting ordinary French citizens - and it isn't their stance, per se, that has infuriated the neocons, principally as their views haven't been voiced.

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 06:56      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Slurpy:
I also don't think that you have a right to call America self-righteous when you're talking about France. I mean, yeah, America is self-righteous, but just as much as France. I think America and France are the two most self-righteous countries in the world.

And can you really refer to Chirac as a European leader? I was under the impression that everyone but the French (and a third of them) hated him.

I do not see the US and France as morally equivalent in this matter. Naturally I have no idea what occurred behind the scenes, but in their public utterances, IMHO the French put forward coherent logical arguments against the US position, and proposed viable alternative plans, which the US failed to answer with anything but bluster and childish insults.

I have no time for Chirac personally. He is too tarnished by his refusal to answer in court the allegations of corruption when he was Mayor of Paris. But in this matter I believe he has the support of a large number of us in the UK, and the majority of Europe.

I am a middle aged, middle class family man, with no dogmatic political beliefs, living in a rich western democracy. Before all this I thought of the US as being, in the main, the good guys. Now I view the US with its overwhelming military might, incompetant inward looking political leadership, and complete disdain for those who disagree with it, as the most dangerous threat to world peace today. I also realise that I live not in the UK, but in the US empire and do not like it. I cannot recall a political event in my 53 years that has left me feeling so betrayed, dissillusioned, and just plain seething with anger. A surprisingly large number of my friends and aquaintances feel similarly.

And if I feel like this, what do you think the angry dispossessed young men in the third world are feeling? Don't you think a fair number might be wondering how they might sign up with Al Qaida?

I believe that the long term effects of this war may well be incredibly profound, and it could even ultimately rewrite the political map of the entire globe.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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weensicka
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 10:55      Profile for weensicka   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
[QUOTE]

I am a middle aged, middle class family man, with no dogmatic political beliefs, living in a rich western democracy. Before all this I thought of the US as being, in the main, the good guys. Now I view the US with its overwhelming military might, incompetant inward looking political leadership, and complete disdain for those who disagree with it, as the most dangerous threat to world peace today.

Since the majority of those posting here who disagreed with current US French-bashing have said that it's foolish to judge an entire people based on the acts and comments of their government, isn't it also inherantly irresponsible to do the same when criticizing Americans? There are many people in this country who disagree with the war, with its motives, with the potential outcome, and with the administration. Not to mention, Bush isn't even a majority-elected leader. Isn't it hypocritical to generalize in this way for the sake of your argument?

As for world peace: as I recall the last real significant threat to peace was WWII--a global military effort involving all of the existing world superpowers and the first and only time nuclear weapons were used in combat. Now, why didn't France and Germany--key European powers--stop the rise of the Third Reich when they had the chance in 1938, 1939, 1940? Why did Neville Chamberlain walk into the Munich Conference and fork over the Sudetenland without so much as a pause? Why did France hide behind the Maginot line instead of decimating Hitler's army when it had the might and the chance to do so? When in history has appeasement worked to establish world peace?

I am not a warmongering American. I have real argument with what the administration has done, is doing, and seems prepared to do in the future. And I'm certainly not saying war is always the answer; "there never was a good war or a bad peace." But, sometimes the right and wrongs of a situation are not so clearly black and white.

And if you want a *real* threat to world peace, how 'bout North Korea?

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 15:50      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The causes of World War 2 are an excellent case study demonstating how ignorance and stupidity are just as dangerous as outright evil. Chamberlain et al just simply could not believe Hitler would do as he plainly stated in Mein Kampf and everything else after that. Another entertaining example of this stupidity is that before the start of World War 2, not just was it only Germany that appreciated the tactical significance of tanks, but there were also actually high ranking generals in the UK army who could not envision warfare that would not involve cavalry! IMHO Dubya and his administration demonstrate an equally catastrophic and smug political misunderstanding of the world, though at least your military seem to be performing OK.

Of course I do not think that all of you are as bad as your administration, but under a democracy you do have a certain collective responsibility for your government. I have to live with their decisions but of course have no say. Doesn't seem to stop them telling us what we should do though....

Sure N Korea is a threat for now, but in the long term I believe unchecked US power stupidity and arrogance is a far greater one. The phrase "bull in a china shop" is one that springs to mind.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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weensicka
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 16:01      Profile for weensicka   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Callipygous:
The causes of World War 2 are an excellent case study demonstating how ignorance and stupidity are just as dangerous as outright evil. Chamberlain et al just simply could not believe Hitler would do as he plainly stated in Mein Kampf and everything else after that. Another entertaining example of this stupidity is that before the start of World War 2, not just was it only Germany that appreciated the tactical significance of tanks, but there were also actually high ranking generals in the UK army who could not envision warfare that would not involve cavalry! IMHO Dubya and his administration demonstrate an equally catastrophic and smug political misunderstanding of the world, though at least your military seem to be performing OK.

Okay, now I'm confused. Do we disagree or not? [Razz]

[QUOTE]Of course I do not think that all of you are as bad as your administration, but under a democracy you do have a certain collective responsibility for your government. I have to live with their decisions but of course have no say. Doesn't seem to stop them telling us what we should do though....

Except that the US is a republic, not an actual democracy. And if I'm not mistaken, the UK is the same way. Don't you vote for your MPs and Prime Minister? You have a say; kick Tony out if you don't like his allegiance to Bush. I'm planning on voting Dubya out--the problem is, I'm just one vote (oh, yeah, and with the whole bizarro electoral college, actual votes don't mean much in this country. What really counts is having your dad buy you a presidency and have your Florida-governor brother back you up. Not much of a republic either, is it?).

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Is there any tea on this spaceship?

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 16:23      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think we are pretty much on the same side [Wink]

We are both angry helpless prats in the same shitty world anyway.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 30, 2003 16:38      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A very interesting article relevant to this discussion here.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2003 14:02      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by cheezi git:
quote:
Originally posted by Slurpy:
WTF does hectoring mean?


hectoring, definition of: time to get an education and open the covers of a dictionary
I'm sorry your crappy British media isn't useful enough to be broadcast in the USA and bring your bloody slang over here (and it's sad when anyone considers the US media superior. . .).

Callipygous, many many Americans see the main reason of this war to be the liberation of the Iraqi people, with the WoMD only a sideline (albeit an important one). I'm not going to bother to argue whether or not we actually did liberate them (only time will tell); I'm only bringing this point up for consideration.

And honestly, although I am deeply concerned about North Korea, the fact remains that they still haven't made any overtly aggressive moves yet. Of course, they could be waiting, to see if we get bogged down in the Middle East. . .

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2003 14:44      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hec-tor

n.

A bully.


v. hec-tored, hec-tor-ing, hec-tors
v. tr.

To intimidate or dominate in a blustering way.


v. intr.

To behave like a bully; swagger.


[Latin Hector, Hektor, from Greek Hektor.]


Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition


hectoring

Hector \Hec-tor\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Hectored; p. pr. & vb. n. Hectoring.] To treat with insolence; to threaten; to bully; hence, to torment by words; to tease; to taunt; to worry or irritate by bullying. --Dryden.


So it's not slang, and don't hector me about it. [Razz]

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weensicka
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2003 18:08      Profile for weensicka   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Slurpy:

And honestly, although I am deeply concerned about North Korea, the fact remains that they still haven't made any overtly aggressive moves yet. Of course, they could be waiting, to see if we get bogged down in the Middle East. . .

I mentioned N. Korea as a serious potential threat not because they have done anything particularly aggressive yet, but because they've fulfilled the long-held fear of "the loonies have the bomb." Not that other powers with nuclear capabilities are any less threatening (we shouldn't forget the whole India/Pakistan threat this past summer, or even the US for that matter, as we are the only country to use the bomb on other people and that's certainly lunacy), but Kim Jong is a loose canon, more so than Hussein ever was, and he has admitted to having WoMD and he has no qualms about using them. We in the US were so concerned with Saddam *developing* weapons for that very reason; why aren't we equally (if not more) concerned with a leader that *has* them?
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