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Author Topic: Is there a god?
Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 03, 2003 17:05      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
I just gave God a 5 rating because .. well .. just in case. I mean you never know.

Buying some indulgences, eh Cal? [Wink]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2003 00:53      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Damn !

He didn't leave his email address.

p.s. I also gave him a 5, because there's no option to give a rating of 666.
[evil]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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magebard
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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2003 01:43      Profile for magebard     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did the universe come out of nothing? Try zero to the zeroeth power (zero in zero dimensions) on a calculator sometime.
.
Keep in mind that religions used to be the equivalent of political parties. Just think of all the dudes in greece claiming to be descended from one god or another, and the think of the elections in california. Get the picture?

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"I'm just preparing my impromptu remarks." - Winston Churchill

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Twinkle Toes
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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2003 15:47      Profile for Twinkle Toes   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by CrawGator:
Ok, Let me break it down for you.

It is not a matter of a = b, meaning lost = blinded. It is a matter of a & b, meaning lost and blinded. This is a circumstance where a person has turned his back on God repeatedly

How can you tell it's God that's 'communicating signs' with you? How do you know when God is trying to help you and you're turning him away? There are times when I've been desperate and have prayed to a god - I wasn't sure who/what I was praying to, but I did say 'oh god, please...' - asking for protection or accomplishment or for someone to go away... and those instances were successful. Then I would wonder if there really was someone/thing that had helped me out or if it had come from myself, my own willpower.

quote:
Spike, I don't fit in with any organized religious sect that I know of, please don't link me with them. I threw away my preconceived notions long ago. My thoughts are my own in matters dealing with God.

I don't either. I was born and baptized a Catholic though, but I never really had any belief in [that] God. It's difficult to find out that you truly don't believe in something when you were brought up into Catholicism and went to private Catholic schools all your life. [Roll Eyes]

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God
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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2003 20:46      Profile for God         Edit/Delete Post 
You make up all these silly stories about me, no wonder there are doubters. In other words, it's not my fault you put words in my mouth. I don't sit around watching a security monitor checking up on every little thing you do. I just am. How can you look at the trees and the grass and the stars in the sky and say I don't exist. That's all me. That's what I am. To try to understand me is useless and pointless because you can't and you never will.

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Satan? What a moron!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2003 21:07      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by God:
You make up all these silly stories about me, no wonder there are doubters. In other words, it's not my fault you put words in my mouth. I don't sit around watching a security monitor checking up on every little thing you do.

Too busy surfing for porn, eh?

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Twinkle Toes
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Icon 13 posted October 04, 2003 23:51      Profile for Twinkle Toes   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Re: God: Well excuse me for having free will.
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God
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Icon 1 posted October 05, 2003 05:23      Profile for God         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Too busy surfing for porn, eh?

No, actually I've been watching the Collector's DVD edition of the complete Star Trek TNG.

P.S. to Twinkle Toes- You misunderstood me.

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Satan? What a moron!

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d3m057h3n35
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Icon 1 posted October 05, 2003 13:17      Profile for d3m057h3n35     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
magebard: Did the universe come out of nothing? Try zero to the zeroeth power (zero in zero dimensions) on a calculator sometime.

0^0=undefined. But the limit of x^x as x->0 is 1. See http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10005.3-5.shtml for more information.

Your understanding of "zero to the zeroeth power" is somewhat flawed. It has nothing to do with dimensions. And I don't see how trying something on your calculator will let you find out if the universe came from nothing. Punch your pi button, and witness the limitations of any calculating machine.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 05, 2003 14:28      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by d3m057h3n35:
magebard: Did the universe come out of nothing? Try zero to the zeroeth power (zero in zero dimensions) on a calculator sometime.

0^0=undefined. But the limit of x^x as x->0 is 1. See http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10005.3-5.shtml for more information.


And, according to the windows calculator, 0^0=1

But then, Bill Gates is god. [evil]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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magebard
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Icon 1 posted October 05, 2003 14:37      Profile for magebard     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by d3m057h3n35:
magebard: Did the universe come out of nothing? Try zero to the zeroeth power (zero in zero dimensions) on a calculator sometime.

0^0=undefined. But the limit of x^x as x->0 is 1. See http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10005.3-5.shtml for more information.

Your understanding of "zero to the zeroeth power" is somewhat flawed. It has nothing to do with dimensions. And I don't see how trying something on your calculator will let you find out if the universe came from nothing. Punch your pi button, and witness the limitations of any calculating machine.

Undefined? Is that what your calculator gave you? lol, every calculator I've ever seen came out with a 1.
.
In any case, my point was that you CAN have something come out of nothing. Thus you don't need to explain away the creation of the universe with circular logic, aka 'god created it'. But if so, then who created god?
.
I oink therefore I ham.

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"I'm just preparing my impromptu remarks." - Winston Churchill

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2003 12:26      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry about taking so long to reply, but life sometimes gets a little busy.

quote:
originally posted by csk:
Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

The Bible seems to suggest what CrawGator calls "absolute predestination". Ephesians 1:4-5 says "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy in blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasere and will".

Eph 1:4-5 does not teach absolute predestination. My emphasis will be in brackets.

"For he chose us {everyone that believes} in him before the creation of the world to be holy in blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us {everyone that believes} to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasere and will"

Paul saying "us" is not saying that only a select group of people will believe. The invitation is open to all. You could say God predestined the plan. It's like saying I am going to give a gift to the people that walk through that door, and if they accept the gift it is theirs.

quote:
Of course absolute future knowledge and absolute predestination raises some thorny theological issues. If God knew that he could have prevented the existence of evil by acting in a certain way (eg, not giving humans free will), but chose not to, is he still the perfectly moral being we thought He was?
If you have a child, and that child must love you because he has no free will, how valuable is that love to you? How much more valuable would that love be if he could love you of his own free will? God gave us free will because He wanted us to love him freely.

quote:
Originally posted by neotatsu:
Ok, given the suggestions made that it's 'god' only shows himself to those who are truly seeking, or whatever, perhaps, since he's omniscient and omnipotent, he already knows who would and who would not accept him, and thus doesn't even seek to *try* to save certain people.. pretty crummy deal, [Razz]

John 1:1-7
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Romans 5:17-18
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Based on this, i would say that He does try to reach everyone. It's just that some people don't want Him.

quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Actually, this is a good example of the kind of problem the standard christian definition of god produces. If your definition of 'god' is 'really smart, really powerful, really nice' then you don't need to argue about predestination, but if it's 'infinitely smart, infinitely powerful, infinitely good' then you inevitably end up tripping over your own feet, or degenerating into pointless speculation about angels and pin-heads. And you also find yourself resorting to the "moves in mysterious ways" defence when asked to explain stuff from the book that plain doesn't fit with your "know-it-all" view of god.

Well I answered the predestination bit. As far as tripping over my own feet, I do believe I am still standing. If I don't understand something, I will tell you, but so far, I am on solid ground.

quote:
Originally posted by Twinkle Toes:
How can you tell it's God that's 'communicating signs' with you? How do you know when God is trying to help you and you're turning him away?

John 16:13-14
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

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d3m057h3n35
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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2003 16:17      Profile for d3m057h3n35     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
speaking of something out of nothing, magebard. in any vacuum, pairs of particles and antiparticles are popping into existence and annihalating each other. the effect has been measured, and it's thought that this "zero point energy" causes Hawking-Bekenstein radiation emitted by black holes (not to be confused with the copious amounts of radiation emitted by a black hole's accretion disk).

since when do you trust a calculator? if you write that e is the sum of an infinite series (1/n^2) you are infinitely more correct than your calculator's e=2.718281828459045235360287471352662497757.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2003 19:10      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey God, one of my students had a question in helproom the other day:
Why does a tetrahedral intermediate form when a carbonyl carbon undergoes a nucleophilic attack? I told her because that's how it works, but she didn't seem to like that.

Next question: why does changing F56 in 1cdw kill cells? The crystal structure ain't telling me shit.

And when will Qwest let me get DSL so I can do my homework at home instead of being holed up in lab long after the sun goes down??

Edit: Please disregard the second question. I found a better PDB viewer. [Smile]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2003 20:34      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Will this thread never die?
No. There is no god. Get over it.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2003 01:37      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Hey God, one of my students had a question in helproom the other day:
Why does a tetrahedral intermediate form when a carbonyl carbon undergoes a nucleophilic attack? I told her because that's how it works, but she didn't seem to like that.

Well, I'm not God, but VSEPR!
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2003 08:24      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
D'oh! I shoulda known that. But I think she was asking a much fmore fundamental why, as in why this way and not some other way? My partner tried to explain it in terms of stereochemistry, but I quickly pointed out that that's no good. A carbonyl has no stereochemistry.

God, I was going to ask you about Schiff bases but I just RTFM and I think that if I sit down and draw, I'll be able to grok it. [Big Grin]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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sconzey
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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2003 11:16      Profile for sconzey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm, deja-vu.

This is a clone of 'I find myself...'

From what I have read I don't think anybody is going to convice anybody else that their point of view is right and we should just let this topic die.

On a side note I have made an interesting observation. The topic title is 'Is there a God?'

All that suggests is 'is there an all powerful being existing outside the constraints of this universe.'

It has degenerated into finding flaws in the Bible and proving Christians wrong.

Think about this logically. We cannot prove whether God exists or not directly, as he is external to our universe and therefore is not subject to the physical laws that govern us.

We can only tell by his effects (or lack thereof) on things. It is this we should be debating.

I happen to have been brought up with a strong faith. This allows me to use the Pascal's Wager excuse... It is better to assume God exists and live your life as if he does, and find out he doesnt, than to live your life as if he doesn't exist and find out he does.

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"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
--Isaac Asimov

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2003 12:58      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Sconzey,

If you look at page one, you will find that this thread is very old, in fact I thought it was dead for over a year. I am afraid it may be my fault that this thread pulled a Lazarus if you will, since I did quote from it in your "I find myself" thread. I am almost positive that kurasutengu must have seen the quote, decided to find the thread, and then revived it.

While I don't mind speaking about God, you are right in that this thread has degenerated. Personally, I think it's time to put this thread back in the grave.

sconzey, feel free to e-mail me or use the board's private msg system sometime and we can discuss beliefs. I always enjoy talking to a fellow Christian.

Finally, if anyone else would like me to expound more upon my beliefs, you can also e-mail me or use the board's private msg system since I won't be responding anymore to this thread.

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Lumox
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Icon 1 posted October 14, 2003 16:04      Profile for Lumox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
man, reading all that made my head hurt. how am i supposed to pass high school?

oh, and i am a firm believer in no religion. or politics. i simply think catagorizing people by their beliefs and then ranting on them that they are wrong is against the free will that humans have earned. unless youve got hard evidence, you should not try to say your better than the other. like religions do all the time. im not raggin on you all, because its simply a process of beliefs. you will believe what you want to, and will change when you feel that you believed wrong. i dont believe in afterlife simply because no proof has been put in front of me that i can go to heaven. only ideas. and what other people believe.

god only exists in the mind of the one who believes in it. there is no maybe i do, maybe i dont, maybe its there, maybe its not. its either solid in your mind that there is a higher being, or solid that things happen because of the way YOU yourself react to the things that have happened.

and i dont think god is a bad thing to believe in, it provides people with a way to live their life (good? sure why not) and lets them put faith in something.

well if you ask me, my faith is in my harddrives, as im not running a RAID 1 config. plz dont fail, kthxbye

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csk

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Icon 5 posted October 15, 2003 03:38      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, if I'm hearing you right, Lumox, you don't believe that there is a [Gg]od, but the concept provides a useful diversion for the religiously inclined people, even if they all believe different and contradictory things?(not a flame, just request for clarification)

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Lumox
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Icon 3 posted October 15, 2003 11:38      Profile for Lumox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
exactly. God exists in the ones who want to believe/put faith into it. but some people just dont NEED to put faith/believe in it. its a matter of the type of person you are.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 15, 2003 23:14      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have nothing new to add to this discussion, but I just couldn't let this post number go to waste [evil]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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hey-U
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Icon 1 posted October 16, 2003 00:05      Profile for hey-U     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
TFD, you ol' devil!

On-topic: there is no god.

...and I'm beginning to have serious doubts about the existence of Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and WMD's...

However, Douglas Adams has some interesting thoughts on the subject in "The Salmon of Doubt" - Publisher info, etc, at http://www.douglasadams.com/salmon.html

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 16, 2003 00:21      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by hey-U:
TFD, you ol' devil!

On-topic: there is no god.

...and I'm beginning to have serious doubts about the existence of Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and WMD's...

However, Douglas Adams has some interesting thoughts on the subject in "The Salmon of Doubt" - Publisher info, etc, at http://www.douglasadams.com/salmon.html

I'm more inclined to believe in Santa than the WMDs, no-one has spent hundreds of millions searching the North Pole for Santa and failed.

I thought the babel Fish was the final proof of the non-existence of God.

btw - I think the man upstairs must have been offended, he's changed my post number (it was 666 originally, honest) to something a bit less interesting. Oh well, I'll just have to settle for 'The Neighbor of The Beast'.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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