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Author Topic: Stupid Drug Laws (and prosecuting under them)
Akira
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Icon 8 posted January 29, 2002 11:14      Profile for Akira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AARGH!

This country's priorities are totally upside down!

First, read this:

http://proliberty.com/observer/20020101.htm

And then, on the SAME DAY this story makes headlines, Jeb Bush's daughter gets arrested for perscription fraud:

http://www.miami.com/herald/digdocs/027301.htm

Of course, she won't have to put up with nearly the rigamarole that poor kid in the first story did.

I am so tired of this useless, apocryphal War on Drugs. I am so tired of the children of privilege not being held accountable for their actions.

When did all of this get so out of hand?

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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Prepare to have your ass laminated.


Posts: 223 | From: LA LA land | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
greycat

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2002 15:27      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been a member of The Drug Reform Coordination Network for some time now. I must confess that I'm not a particularly active member; I've donated some money, and written a few letters to congressmen, but that's basically it.

/me checks the other window. Oh good, this is the rants/raves forum. With that in mind, let me proceed.

It seems that there is a certain kind of person -- for lack of a better word, I'll call this person a "busybody". This person is usually a churchgoer. His or her hobbies include hanging out with other people just like him/her, and snubbing anyone who is not just like him/her.

Due to social isolation, this person tends to be extremely ignorant. They understand nothing outside of their narrow little world-views. However, they are also arrogant; and they think that everything that they do not understand (or which is different) is inferior or wrong.

In short, they are anti-geeks.

They are the people who oppose the Internet; and yet they've never used it. They oppose homosexuality, and sex outside of marriage, and alcohol, and drugs, and long hair on males, and cross-dressing, and prostitution, and abortion, and ... well, the list is nearly infinite. Let me summarize: they oppose any expression of individuality, since they expect everyone to be just like them. Or to be more candid, just like they would want themselves to be. Because in reality most of these people have at least one serious vice (according to their own definition).

Less than 100 years ago, the US tried to prohibit the sale of alcohol. This led to a massive surge in crimes of all variety. People did not stop consuming alcohol; they simply had to do so more clandestinely, and at a higher price. The higher prices led to theft, etc.

You don't have to be a student of history to know what it was like during Prohibition. The same thing is happening now. People who want to use marijuana (or other recreational drugs) aren't stopped by the prohibitionist laws. They still use it; they simply have to do so in fear and shame. And it costs more. And it's riskier, both legally and medically.

I don't drink alcohol; I don't use marijuana or any other recreational drugs. I've never had any drug stronger than codeine, which was prescribed when my wisdom teeth were extracted. I don't have first-hand experience with the difficulties that drug users face.

Yet it's clear that the "busybodies" are doing irreparable harm to our society. The per capita prison population of the United States in 2000 was the second highest in the world, trailing only that of Russia.

I don't have answers to these problems. But I urge anyone reading this to look into the issues, and give some thought to them.


Posts: 1522 | From: Ohio, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tau Zero
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Icon 14 posted January 29, 2002 15:33      Profile for Tau Zero     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only thing I can say is "hear, hear".  Such busybody activity by the government is a waste of taxpayer money and a violation of my rights.

Is malicious prosecution a tort in the state of Washington?  If so, I think Joshua Krawiek should sue; maybe the ACLU would take his case.  A little legal spanking would probably do the prosecutors some good.


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theJacob
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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2002 18:48      Profile for theJacob     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My take on the issue is that we should either legalize all (or most) drugs or ban tobacco and alchol and live in a world of crime (I mean, more than we do now). But tobacco remains beacuse it has lobbists and can pay off the government. It seems that you cannot get anywhere in this country unless you are a corporation...

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Intellegnce+Laziness=Efficency


Posts: 141 | From: Colorado | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Swiss Mercenary

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2002 08:31      Profile for Swiss Mercenary     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
See previous topic for where I stand on this (pro-legalisation of marijuana and hashish), and the Swiss Government is also pushing for this.
At the moment, if you have 3 grams or less on you, it is considered for personal consumption and the police leave you alone.

In France, the law as it stand is a six MONTH prison sentence for using and more for possession. Now that is stupid!


Posts: 2275 | From: All the way from the land of Chocolate, Cheese and Cuckoo Clocks. | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
PHX1
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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2002 22:32            Edit/Delete Post 
This is exactly why I am a Libertarian...
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Joetoe
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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2002 05:27      Profile for Joetoe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reason I'm against legalizing marijuana is my stepson uses it. He has dropped out of high school, only gets minimum wage jobs which he can't hold, has stolen money and things from his own family, and has stolen and forged checks against his own family's checking account.

I understand there are some people, like Carl Sagan, who can use marijuana and still live a normal, useful, life. But I'm inclined to believe they are the exception.


Posts: 2 | From: Morrisville, NC | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
annie
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Icon 14 posted January 31, 2002 07:26      Profile for annie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
greycat, I'm in total agreement with you. And I think we should eliminate these people, these "busybodies" as you call them (my actual idea was to send them off on a one way trip on a spaceship, but Tau Zero didn't seem to think that was feasible. Spoilsport. ).

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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.


Posts: 391 | From: somewhere in Canada | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaraSue
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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2002 21:36      Profile for DaraSue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Joetoe:
The reason I'm against legalizing marijuana is my stepson uses it. He has dropped out of high school, only gets minimum wage jobs which he can't hold, has stolen money and things from his own family, and has stolen and forged checks against his own family's checking account.

But the illegality of it didn't stop him, did it? Sorry, I don't mean to trivialize your family problems, but it just seems (to an outside observer) that legalizing marijuana can't hurt and might even help, even in situations where people are abusing it. If it were legal, ideally, there would be a free market for it, and the prices wouldn't be so high that users would have to steal to pay for it. And it would keep people who are otherwise harmless from going to prison (and more often than not, coming out a worse criminal than they were when they went in).


Posts: 86 | From: The LC, Utah | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
SupportGoddess

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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2002 00:51      Profile for SupportGoddess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure who initially got all worked up and decided to make drugs illegal in the first place (and not terribly interested) but I am inclined to agree with greycat on the general type of person.

I don't advocate using illegal drugs (obviously) and don't do it personally. *However*, I find myself apalled at the amount of stupid legislation aimed at violating basic autonomy. What I put into my body is no one else's business. If I want to snort clorox, it would be my business, and not the government's. (And if I were stupid enough to do that, hopefully I would meet an untimely demise *before* I was able to breed.) Laws designed to protect people from themselves are a waste of resources. Not to mention a violation of the freedom of the many because of the stupidity of the few. (I am pretending for a moment that these laws were passed by good but dimwitted people that actually care. I seriously doubt that is the case. Personally I think it has more to do with having a political drum to beat.)

To me, the question of drugs as good or bad is irrelevant. The important question is: since when is big brother allowed to tell me what I can and can't do with my body if no one else is physically harmed by it?

The American Constitution is a beautiful and elegant document. I strongly recommend reading it, because our government is a far cry from what was outlined there. Adding prohibition as an amendment was a travesty that never should have occurred and seems to me to violate some of the same principles on which our country was founded, mostly freedom. I am disgusted that anyone else thinks they have the right to tell me what I can and can't put in my body.

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reality.sys corrupted. universe halted. reboot (y/n)?


Posts: 1150 | From: The Digital Temple | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tau Zero
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Icon 12 posted February 01, 2002 08:43      Profile for Tau Zero     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by annie:
(my actual idea was to send them off on a one way trip on a spaceship, but Tau Zero didn't seem to think that was feasible. Spoilsport. ).

Not true!  I just bridled at the idea of a bunch of idiot busybodies having a big neato spaceship that I helped pay for, and me not having one!  It seemed like a reversal of priorities.

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annie
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2002 10:58      Profile for annie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Tau Zero:
Not true! I just bridled at the idea of a bunch of idiot busybodies having a big neato spaceship that I helped pay for, and me [b]not having one! It seemed like a reversal of priorities. [/B]

Well then you just should have asked for one. And who's to say we can't use their own money to build it, they won't need money in space. And I thought that I told you already that the assumption there was that spaceships were cheap and readily available.

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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.


Posts: 391 | From: somewhere in Canada | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tau Zero
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2002 12:09      Profile for Tau Zero     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(Yes, but that wasn't nearly as funny.)

Getting back on-topic, should we put people who can't control their drug use (and steal etc.) on the ships-of-no-return along with the busybodies?

I think that's one big thing that supports the politics of prohibition; the public looks at the crimes committed by a certain sub-class of drug users and decides that the laws throwing them in jail are okay.  It doesn't seem to occur to most people that if it was legal (as it was at the turn of the century), people would be able to get it cheap or grow their own and be able to finance just about any habit.  The only remaining problem is those people whose drug habits impair them otherwise to the point where they do not discharge their other responsibilities.  And is that even a big problem so long as it's temporary?

(I've got a personal interest in this.  Someone I know was spending his life as a stoner, dropped out of school, working a nothing job... and lo and behold, at the age of 19 he got his GED, went back and grauduated from HS at 20, and just ditched his skanky girlfriend and joined the Army with an eye toward paying his tuition for a degree in sports medicine.  A newly-minted Private was to have reported to Fort Knox this week, and I expect I'll find out pretty soon how his change of career is progressing.  One thing for sure, the drill sergeants aren't likely to cut him any slack:  his mother is an ex-Army drill instructor!)

And as long as you're saying so... Annie, can I have a great big neato spaceship?  I've always wanted to fly around the rings of Saturn.


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Akira
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Icon 1 posted February 04, 2002 01:13      Profile for Akira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Joetoe:
The reason I'm against legalizing marijuana is my stepson uses it. He has dropped out of high school, only gets minimum wage jobs which he can't hold, has stolen money and things from his own family, and has stolen and forged checks against his own family's checking account.

With all due respect -- how does this differ from the problems faced by a chronic alcoholic? And alcohol was legal, last I checked.

Why is there a certain class of people that believes you can make a problem go away by outlawing it? I've never seen this strategy work, even at the level of a parent who says their kids can't watch a certain show -- if they're determined enough they'll find a friend to tape it and watch it at their house.

The only effective means I've ever seen of solving a problem are to educate yourself about it and then act on that knowledge.

AAARGH...sometimes people make me just wanna go live on an asteroid or something. (Annie, put me down for a spaceship too, I guess...)

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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Prepare to have your ass laminated.


Posts: 223 | From: LA LA land | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
seraphim
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Icon 6 posted February 04, 2002 12:43      Profile for seraphim     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
if all drugs where legal, then it would eliminate street dealers, therefor eliminating a lot of crime. what;s the diffrence between alchol and ANY drug being legal? they all get you high, they all are addictive. but why hold everyone's hand and lead them where a huge % of them won't go? we spent billions of dollars educating on the effects of any drug, and no one in this country(or on this planet for that matter) should be confused as to the effect, so if someone is dumb enough to get addicted, that's their problem to fix. and before anyone jumps me for being so insensitive, this is coming from an ex-heroine junkie.

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lost in coma where it's beautiful, dreaming in digital


Posts: 31 | From: sental star galaxy | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
seraphim
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Icon 8 posted February 04, 2002 12:44      Profile for seraphim     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
beats the typo demon over the head then offers it a pringle.

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lost in coma where it's beautiful, dreaming in digital


Posts: 31 | From: sental star galaxy | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tau Zero
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Icon 3 posted February 04, 2002 14:00      Profile for Tau Zero     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(psst! seraphim! The little icon with the pencil over your post? You can click that to edit your typos away!)
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ZorroTheFox
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Icon 12 posted February 04, 2002 17:50      Profile for ZorroTheFox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
but sum peepoll lyke typoz, it is much bedder than alwyz tryin to bee perfekt........Z
Posts: 3046 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
seraphim
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Icon 1 posted February 04, 2002 20:41      Profile for seraphim     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thankyou much!!!!!
now my typo demon will have no more abuse- but also no more pringles.

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lost in coma where it's beautiful, dreaming in digital


Posts: 31 | From: sental star galaxy | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
ZorroTheFox
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Icon 6 posted February 05, 2002 17:05      Profile for ZorroTheFox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yor wellcom......Z
Posts: 3046 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged


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