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Author Topic: Linux or Windows?
PenguinsRule
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Icon 8 posted March 21, 2003 21:44      Profile for PenguinsRule     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know this debate can go on and on...and you all know my position, I want to be objective and see what your opinions are... [Big Grin]
Posts: 4 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 21, 2003 22:37      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really could rant about this, but I don't think that would be nice. Yes, I love Linux! I'm composing this from Phoenix (f/unstable), using Xft/fontconfig, inside Windowmaker, under Debian. I love it!

OTOH, I must support Windows at work. I know Windows quite well, but I obviously much prefer Linux. (Though I make myself as comfortable as possible on my desk machine - I use Phoenix, gVim, and PuTTY - they make 2KPro so much more useful.)

Knowing the ins and outs of each relatively well, I'm in a reasonable position to compare the two, and I just find Linux to be so much more productive and usable - but I'm probably quite different from your average user. I move files much faster with `mv` and a little bit of tab completion [Wink] . FHS just makes a lot of sense. So do text files for configuration, and non-GUI tools for the core operation of a system.

Something you fail to take into account however, is the vast Mac-using population on these boards. I am even starting to get into the scene, enjoying the *nix core of OS X, and the fact that I can use many of my X11 apps under Jaguar, now with Apple's own X11 server. I am quite impressed by the Developers tools that Apple included with OS X, and have begun to play with them (I think I'm going to SSH/VNC into the eMac now, and play around a little). I also played with a Mac IIcx (or was that IIci?), and I was quite amazed at what that little thing could do - sure it was old, and had an 80 MB HD, and a smattering of RAM, and single-application support, but noticing that the version of Word on there dated back to 1992, I was quite impressed with how it behaved. Word looked like Office 97, and I think the MacOS/System on there was quite good for its time.

There are things about each of the above OSes that I probably don't like at times (mostly Windows, though [Smile] ). But no OS is without it's faults, so I will not try to openly condemn anyone's choice of operating system. One should use what works for them, but beware of the alternatives, so as to avoid getting stuck in a rut of using something that someone just shoved you into.

Hmm, I failed miserably at being brief, but I did not rant about the quality (or lack thereof) of Windows (TM)(R)(C).

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted March 22, 2003 02:15      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is this a trick question? [Wink]
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neo
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Icon 1 posted March 22, 2003 04:28      Profile for neo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yeah, me too. these guys love windows alot but i think linux are for people like us. thats because, windows is user friendly and you have to pay for it. if you guys want to get the latest os, don't. it gets down easily and it can't be hacked. opps, did i said hack? yeah, i did! the Xp and apple's Xos is full of sh*t. yaah, so it has fast speed and stuff but the guys down there got the X stuff and it sucked totally. trust me. *TRUST ME!!!* don't get apple because blair had some sort of aggrement with it. so they could be watching you....well...in a way. ok then. nuff said.

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~What lies do you believe?~

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Allan
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Icon 1 posted March 22, 2003 11:17      Profile for Allan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use both Windows mostly for work, and I ran linux for a while and really enjoyed the stability. I'm now using my Mac mostly for home but the two things do coincide from time to time

Windows 2000 is OK but I hate XP, I'm also concerned about how open windows is. We run a couple of servers on the public internet and I'm fed up with filled up log files of failed 'script kiddie' attacks. (actually any good tips to stop this accepted). I love the fact that I can plug my Mac into the same router, assign it an IP, switch on the easy to understand firewall and have no problems.

What I do think however is that Linux and OS X are so good because to be taken seriously they had to be so far ahead of windows that people invested in them in a way that Microsoft never will.

let's hope that Linux goes from strength to strength, because I don't think an Apple monopoly would be any better (or worse) than a Microsoft one.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 22, 2003 13:33      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I've said a million times... each OS has it's uses and it's pitfalls. Linux is very powerful, it's all open and it's very network friendly... It however isn't userfriendly and there isn't the same amount of cutting edge games as the other system. It dirvers are typically a step behind, as the manufactures are not yet ready to write a Linux driver before reasling a peice of hardware.

Windows has drivers for the latest hardware, has more cutting edge games and is easier to use. It however is mostly closed code (the OS is completely closed) and it is realsed without a knowen bugs list (even though there are always a bunch of doozies). It also lacks the multiuser supposrt and security that *nix systems supply.

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My Site

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 22, 2003 14:22      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by neo:
yeah, me too. these guys love windows alot but i think linux are for people like us. thats because, windows is user friendly and you have to pay for it. if you guys want to get the latest os, don't. it gets down easily and it can't be hacked. opps, did i said hack? yeah, i did! the Xp and apple's Xos is full of sh*t. yaah, so it has fast speed and stuff but the guys down there got the X stuff and it sucked totally. trust me. *TRUST ME!!!* don't get apple because blair had some sort of aggrement with it. so they could be watching you....well...in a way. ok then. nuff said.

Score(-3, Flamebait, Troll)

Never say "it can't be hacked." That is not true - almost nothing is completely invulnerable. See my above comment about having used all (3, actually) of the above OSes intensively before I even attempted to judge them at all. Even so, I would never sink so low as to make a comment like you did.

You clearly could not have read my comment:
quote:

Something you fail to take into account however, is the vast Mac-using population on these boards.

It's not exactly smart to go an attack an OS that so many people here use (yes, I know that a sizeable percentage of the Mac users also use 9, and may even agree with Neo about X).

Hmm, I've got better things to do now than respond to a troll.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Bob
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Icon 1 posted March 23, 2003 23:07      Profile for Bob   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a FreeBSD user, FreeBSD is the only way to go.

But in answer to the question, as a Server OS, *NIX is the best choice, unless there is a specific need to run Windows.

For a Desktop OS, its what ever suites your needs.

Posts: 3 | From: Over There | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
spungo
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Icon 1 posted March 24, 2003 02:50      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When it comes to unices, I'm with Zorro! That's why I use FreeBDSM. [Razz]

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6530 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
snupy
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Icon 1 posted March 24, 2003 04:46      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You mean that's not a real program???? [Confused]

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"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 24, 2003 05:10      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
code:
if(Bob == Zorro)
return true;
else
return false;


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Noldoaran
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Icon 1 posted March 24, 2003 13:36      Profile for Noldoaran     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by PenguinsRule:
I know this debate can go on and on...and you all know my position, I want to be objective and see what your opinions are... [Big Grin]

Just Say NO to Microsoft [Big Grin] [Wink]
Posts: 228 | From: California | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted March 25, 2003 09:59            Edit/Delete Post 
OSes... hm...

I agree with GameMaster - it depends what you want to do with your computer, really, and your general proficiency level and how far you want to take that.

I don't generally object to using Windows, as it has a nice user interface, but the inner workings look to be a total mess (why does it still use 8.3 filenames...?) and I've never really got a handle on them. My real concern, though, would be the security issues of running Windows. For example, my Mac encounted Nimda, and had I been running a PC, I may have been attacked. Having said that, were I using a PC, I'd probably not be using IE anyhow, and I doubt any other browsers would have fallen prey to Nimda. I'd also probably run an e-mail client that isn't open to all the abuse that gets packaged up into e-mails and sent to me from other compromised PCs. I'd also have to go through all that virus checker nonsense that 9.1 users don't have to worry about generally.

I have mixed views on Linux - I love the UNIX command line, but the peculiar inconsistencies between Linux apps' user interfaces gets on my nerves, and I find that Mac OS and Windows user interfaces are preferable in any case.

I did install Linux on my Mac, a year ago or some such, but it elected to give me a hard time - the most fun part is that the shipped kernel will lock the machine if I tried to run X11 - didn't like my video chip. I also wasn't taken with the quality of apps I tried to use - Linux ICQ and Gaim were particularly bad (Gaim has probably improved a lot since), and the GIMP never made any sense - I'm a Photoshop junkie.

Now, I feel somehow that to be a computer geek, I have to run Linux - some sort of expectation of us all, but I've concluded that I'm simply more productive in Mac OS, and that actually getting stuff done is more important - why change OS if I have to re-learn everything and try and find replacement apps, etc. I'm happy being technical with Mac OS 9, using technical knowledge and methods to improve my user experience in the OS I already use, instead of switching OS to earn a proper geek badge, and then ending up wasting a lot of time over it.

However, I'm generally content to use any OS that's available, providing that it has a usable set of applications (Solaris doesn't count ;) Well, content to try and use - doesn't mean it won't piss me off when I encounter some of the weirdness out there like Mac OS X or KDE 3 ;) At least I'm not the only one to detest KDE's grouping in its taskbar :P

So, it's onwards with Mac OS 9.1 for me - 9.1 forever :) And Win 3.11, too...

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Tyler Durden
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Icon 1 posted March 25, 2003 15:39      Profile for Tyler Durden     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Windows is great for playing games... that's about it

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that's it sir, you're leaving...the crackle of pig skin...the dust and the screaming...the yuppies networking
the panic...the vomit...the panic...the vomit
god loves his children...god loves his children...yeah

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Noldoaran
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Icon 1 posted March 25, 2003 17:04      Profile for Noldoaran     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Durden:
Windows is great for playing games... that's about it

Yes, Linux doesn't have very many good games, but that is changing!
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Mr Bill
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Icon 6 posted March 25, 2003 19:53      Profile for Mr Bill     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to work at a small cabel internet provider with a history of short-term net admins. Result: win2k and NT servers running IIS alongside Redhat servers running Apache alongside loggers running Slackware alongside domain servers running windows alongside DNS servers running Linux.

I grew up with DOS and the whole win3.1 -> 2000 circus, and had played around with installing Redhat & Mandrake, but I was more comfortable with getting around in microcrap. When I started at the ISP, the current Net Admin was trying to convert all the machines (or as many as he could) to Linux.

I was the first one in the company to use a Linux desktop for day to day work. It took me a while to get used to it, but eventually I could do everything faster with Linux. The only thing I couldn't do was access the customer database (MS-SQL + IE = unhappy penguin). Management would not spend the money to hire a developer to convert the customer database, so the idea of changing all the desktops to Linux kind of died in the water, and I was moved to a win2k box to work with.

So I guess I like Linux for actually working, and windows for games.

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Will work for taglines...

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uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 10 posted March 26, 2003 08:17            Edit/Delete Post 
I should do something mad like going back to doing word processing on my 6502 machine - I don't suppose stuff like bold and italics in text would work when I print stuff out on an HP-DJ660C, though [Smile]
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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 26, 2003 09:26      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The inconsistanies of the UI in Linux is part of it's charm, and becoming less an issue as more apps are being built for particular window managers (KDE/GNOME). The internals of the applications, and hte stability are incredible in comparison to Windows and Mac. I have seen Mac crashes and windows crash first hand... but I have yet to see Linux crash first hand (although I know a few things that can do it). The quality of code is improved from the number of personal tweaks that have been incorperated. It does, however, mean that looking for software dependencies is a bit of a pain at times (versioning branches and minor differences between distros cause you to hunt down where they put application x, in order to do xyz). But then there are tons of people pouring over the code rudcing bugs and security flaws...

UI really isn't important, if it is usable, with clealy labled features, then I don't care that one app doesn't look like another.

Indeed Gaim is icky... It isn't quite as powerful as it should be, it is the same code base that appears in the AIM tab in Modzilla and Netscape after Netscape 6. LICQ shows a lot of promise, although there are a few things I'd like to see priority put on... I'd love to see the console plug-in perfected (so that I can use it over Telnet) and a few other minnor things here and there (most about hte plug-ins and not the original code base).

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My Site

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted March 26, 2003 09:35      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
The inconsistanies of the UI in Linux is part of it's charm, and becoming less an issue as more apps are being built for particular window managers (KDE/GNOME) ...

Huh? You wot? Don't you think that the proliferation of WM-specific apps is detrimental to the whole package, 'cos I certainly do. I pray developers keep an open mind, i.e., code it in Xlib - don't shut-out huge swathes of users (or rather, don't force them to download third-party libraries). What do you do for users who don't want KDE or Gnome on their boxes?

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 26, 2003 09:54      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
GM, please try Gaim now before making judgements about it - I think you'll find it a phenomenal improvement. I've been working on it a little, and follow its progress and source, and am loving it. Please see http://gaim.sf.net/cvs.php to get the latest version. See the screenshots page while you're at it to see what you're missing.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 26, 2003 10:57      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DM, I use Gaim most of the time instead of LICQ (simply because I can get to gaim w/o thinking... I need to fix the path to LICQ and make a Link to it). I will indeed update to the latest verssion, and I may change my mind. Don't worry, I'm still open minded.
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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 26, 2003 10:58      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This double post is a product of your imagination.
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Tyler Durden
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Icon 1 posted March 26, 2003 12:48      Profile for Tyler Durden     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
The inconsistanies of the UI in Linux is part of it's charm, and becoming less an issue as more apps are being built for particular window managers (KDE/GNOME). The internals of the applications, and hte stability are incredible in comparison to Windows and Mac. I have seen Mac crashes and windows crash first hand... but I have yet to see Linux crash first hand (although I know a few things that can do it). The quality of code is improved from the number of personal tweaks that have been incorperated. It does, however, mean that looking for software dependencies is a bit of a pain at times (versioning branches and minor differences between distros cause you to hunt down where they put application x, in order to do xyz). But then there are tons of people pouring over the code rudcing bugs and security flaws...

UI really isn't important, if it is usable, with clealy labled features, then I don't care that one app doesn't look like another.

Indeed Gaim is icky... It isn't quite as powerful as it should be, it is the same code base that appears in the AIM tab in Modzilla and Netscape after Netscape 6. LICQ shows a lot of promise, although there are a few things I'd like to see priority put on... I'd love to see the console plug-in perfected (so that I can use it over Telnet) and a few other minnor things here and there (most about hte plug-ins and not the original code base).

to get a kernel panic in Linux, play an incomplete ogm wrapper file in mplayer... never fails [Smile] The software dependency problem really depends on what distro you're using and how it handles installing packages/programs. After using RedHat for a while, I found that the rpm system was horribly inadequate (sucked). Now that I'm using Gentoo, I have emerge at my disposal, which handles dependencies automatically and will download whatever programs I need automatically. Debian with apt-get also has similar function.

I don't understand by Gaim being underpowered... I could really care less that file transfer be implemented into the program; I have my Linux box be an FTP server anyway, so if people want something from me I just put it up on there.

If you want a console IM program, check out CenterICQ. It's good shit...

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that's it sir, you're leaving...the crackle of pig skin...the dust and the screaming...the yuppies networking
the panic...the vomit...the panic...the vomit
god loves his children...god loves his children...yeah

Posts: 682 | From: DFW, TX | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted March 27, 2003 17:38            Edit/Delete Post 
to get a kernel panic in Linux, play an incomplete ogm wrapper file in mplayer... never fails [Smile]
What - you mean no-one's actually fixed it yet? I thought Linux was supposed to be the OS where people didn't leave bugs lying around like this...

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dragonman97

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Icon 3 posted March 27, 2003 18:20      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tyler, you mean something like this?

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9345 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged


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