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Author Topic: Have to get this off my chest...
MistecMcetsiM
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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2003 21:47      Profile for MistecMcetsiM     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
quote:
Originally posted by MistecMcetsiM:
Hmm, maybe I'm not the only special olympian.

There you go......that is the first step....accepting the real you [Wink]
The funny thing about you is that you are incapable of letting go of a grudge which you have decided to hold onto. I used to be that way. It's nice to be free of that bull. I find it difficult to feel anything but pity toward you.

*knows I'll receive yet another snide remark from vic about this but doesn't really care*

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Mistakes are inevitable, but to fear failure is the real mistake. ~Me

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2003 22:22      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to do all the u/ur-type stuff to ease on typing (my bad typing was really holding me back in fast IRC conversations and it gets stressful) but someone got upset and I finally went back to using real words for the most part (and now I, too, think u/ur/etc. look sucky).
Heh, "u/ur/etc" looks like a directory to me...
Seriously, abervations that are common to speed up typing skills is very important to me in chat... I am a slow typist, not having learned to "type," but being fairly good with the keyboard from the amount of times I spend at the keyboard.

I still let up on IRC, though - I don't often bother to punctuate correctly - IRC is not an English essay and I don't need to waste the time and effort treating it like one.
I agree, unless the meaning is muttled beyond comprehension.

I do get put off by misspelt forum posts, though - we have time to re-read them, and edit them, so although a few errors here and there are inevitably going to slip in, posts riddled with stupid mistakes are just sloppy and careless, and to me, this reflects badly on the poster.
(Read: Anything I post reflects poorly on me.) Look, yes, it has more to do with my lazyness than my dislexia... but I post here for fun, because I like you guys. If people can't get past my spelling, they can ignore my posts... I don't care about being popular, as long as I am able to comunicate with my friends here. If some one is as shallow as to judge people by how they speak rather than what they say then I probably don't care to be friends with them anyway.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2003 22:34      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry to double post, but just had to go dict Hopefully... and found:

code:
From WordNet (r) 1.7 [wn]:

hopefully
adv 1: with hope; in a hopeful manner; "we searched hopefully for a
good position" [ant: {hopelessly}]
2: it is hoped; "hopefully the weather will be fine on Sunday"

So, "hopefully it will rain" is right... sorry CG.
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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted June 11, 2003 08:15      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That second definition is just because that is how it is commonly used, not because it is the proper way to use that adverb. Did you know that "D'oh!" is in the dictionary now?

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted June 11, 2003 17:16            Edit/Delete Post 
GameMaster:
I do read your posts, despite the spelling. However, it does take extra effort on my part to re-read parts of them until I can figure out quite what they're meant to say - effort that was meant to be yours. Dyslexia is one thing, and unfortunate, but laziness is another – it can't do any harm to make your posts a little bit easier for everyone to read.

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MacintoshGeek
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Icon 1 posted June 11, 2003 19:40      Profile for MacintoshGeek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am no English major, heh, but I looked up webster.com:

quote:
Main Entry: hope·ful·ly
Pronunciation: 'hOp-f&-lE
Function: adverb
Date: circa 1639
1 : in a hopeful manner
2 : it is hoped : I hope : we hope
usage In the early 1960s the second sense of hopefully, which had been in sporadic use since around 1932, underwent a surge of popular use. A surge of popular criticism followed in reaction, but the criticism took no account of the grammar of adverbs. Hopefully in its second sense is a member of a class of adverbs known as disjuncts. Disjuncts serve as a means by which the author or speaker can comment directly to the reader or hearer usually on the content of the sentence to which they are attached. Many other adverbs (as interestingly, frankly, clearly, luckily, unfortunately) are similarly used; most are so ordinary as to excite no comment or interest whatsoever. The second sense of hopefully is entirely standard.

Then I looked up disjunct:

quote:
Main Entry: 2dis·junct
Pronunciation: 'dis-"j&[ng](k)t, dis-'
Function: noun
Date: 1921
1 : any of the alternatives that make up a logical disjunction
2 : an adverb or adverbial (as luckily in "Luckily we had an extra set" or in short in "In short, there is nothing we can do") that is loosely connected to a sentence and conveys the speaker's or writer's comment on its content, truth, or manner -- compare ADJUNCT 2b

So it seems "Hopefully we'll have an extra set" is correct, no?

Steve

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted June 11, 2003 22:27      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is correct... But it is a derivative that some purists would call "improper." To such purists, I can only point out that English is a living language. The meanings of words will change, and this is a case where the change has already happened, and there is no use crying over spilled milk. Especially if you use a mac, "Think Different" should be "Think Differently"

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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted June 11, 2003 23:38      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Coffee_geek:
On a related note, I have a friend from Canada, eh, who pronounces it "Bo-row", wheras most people I know pronounce it "Bah-row". Any ideas?

Yes, while I pronounce it 'Bah-row' out of habit, it's supposed to be 'Bo-row', 'Bah-row' is how you pronounce "Barrow", which is "A large mound of earth or stones placed over a burial site." Such as the Barrow Downs in LotR [Wink]

[devil wand]

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I'm curious... About what, you ask? EVERYTHING!

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted June 12, 2003 00:25      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is purely personal, but whatever the dictionary says, I just find the modern use of hopefully ugly. It also takes longer to say and is less direct than saying "I hope". Shorter simpler more direct speech is better. However I regret that I do sometimes use the word that way myself!

Another modern usage that I dislike is "stress" as a catch all word covering everything from a minor annoyance or a slight concern to seething anger and righteous fury. I probably also dislike the implication that it is always morally wrong and a breach of Teenage Human Rights, but also whenever someone says they are stressed I also get a rather comic mental picture of girders inside them.

One more word that seems to also be changing meaning is "harsh" which seems to be losing its connotations of ruthlessness and severity, and gathering many rather indistinct meanings from cruel to unsentimental.

But Gamemaster is right, language is living and meanings move and change.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted June 12, 2003 02:02      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was it Socrates who said 'Hope is a waking dream'? I met a girl called Hope, once - though she was more of a wanking dream. [Smile]

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 02:34      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barrow Wights! I was sad they weren't in Fellowship [Frown]
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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 02:51      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Slurpy:
Barrow Wights! I was sad they weren't in Fellowship [Frown]

Yes, so was I... They always leave out poor old Tom Bombadil-o.. And he has such nifty songs too [Frown]
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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 07:02            Edit/Delete Post 
Well, it wasn't their absense that bothered me, but something that my sister pointed out – Aragorn brought along four swords (to make up for the hobbits not taking them from the barrow), but was only expecting to meet two hobbits. Last I read, he wasn't gifted with psychic powers...
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 11:04      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But perhaps he has a propensity for being prepared for any situation that might face him, and figured that 'the more swords, the better.'

And GM, I'm sorry, but I have a great deal of difficulty taking any words on grammar from you. Then again, I might just have a chip on my shoulder for you misspelling "Linux."

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Bregalad
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Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 11:50      Profile for Bregalad     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
But perhaps he has a propensity for being prepared for any situation that might face him, and figured that 'the more swords, the better.'

A Ranger knows how to travel light. He wouldn't be packing around a bag full of Hobbit sized swords unless he knew he was going to need them.

On the other hand he was supposed to be carrying around a certain broken sword as his calling card. Sticking it in a "museum" in Imladris was totally wrong. At the same time people who haven't read the book would wonder how the heck he did his job without a usable sword.

Those sorts of story adjustments were probably necessary in order to create a story that would fit into 3 hours and be easy for the general public to "get". Having said that I'm still annoyed at the completely unnecessary changes made in Two Towers. Elves fighting alongside Men at Helm's Deep? JRR must have been thrashing about in his grave.

I would love to have somebody turn LoTR into a television series. A full season on North American TV would be 26 shows. Assume 45 minutes of content each episode and you've got over 19 hours to tell the tale. It would be possible to write an even longer multi-season version that includes all the songs and expands each scene with realistic dialogue. Two full years to tell LoTR on TV? Sign me up to watch every week!!

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uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 13:49            Edit/Delete Post 
Granted, changes had to be made to get a whole book into three hours – I accept this. It was the unnecessary changes in FoTR that bothered me. And the overdramatisation of Khazâd-Dûm with all that rock-swaying stuff, (AKA Z'ha'dum, for B5 fans), while good for non-Tolkien-fan movie goers, really got to me.

I've also wondered, though, whether it would be better to make it into a TV series instead. I have some doubts, but it would certainly give us all the necessary hours, like you said. It might be a while before anyone tries it – waiting until after the films have long since been watched.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted June 13, 2003 18:17      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm going to stay out of the LOTR debate. I enjoy the movies for the excellent pieces of cinematic art they are and the books for the excellent pieces of literary art they are.

u/ur go on my pet peeve list. Like ringtones, it drives me up the wall and into the distant hills. But that's just me being irrational. I did get pretty steamed though when I saw my sister writing a skit for school and spelling everything in the script in what I call AIMglish.

I understood GMx and spungo after a lot of concentration. 3L337 or however the hell it's "spelled" makes no sense to me. It's faster to just fscking type.

As far as grammar goes, I'm sure I miss many subtleties. No one formally taught me English grammar; as a honors student I guess they expected me to learn it by osmosis. Most of it I learned by studying French! So I'm sorry to break the rules. Hopefully I'll stop. [evil]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted June 14, 2003 04:34            Edit/Delete Post 
One word (phrase) that I do need to get using more often is "spinney-rotatey" :D I don't know quite what it means – it's one of Chris's weird made-up words. Then you have things like "right-way wrong-way" and "wrong-way right-way" – referring to which way you drive around the circuit in the game Indianapolis 500: The Simulation when staging crashes. I could never remember which was which of course, but Chris's sayings are cute ;-)

But he's the one who introduced me to such joys as u/ur/prolly (probably)/yer (yeah) and so on, over ICQ, and one of the two people responsible for getting me into trance music (yay). I'm not sure who started me on ICQ (him or Steve), but Chris is also the one who later on told me to try out IRC.

As for grammar – my eye opener to it came from the Klingon Dictionary. This came after about five years of French and four of German at high school, during all such time I'd struggled without ever having any real idea about grammar. Somehow, reading about it in TKD (by which time, it was too late) started to make everything clear at last.

Now, though, all I need is a nice exotic syntax/grammar to be used for Xirnann =]

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greycat

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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 09:40      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling
by Mark Twain

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.

Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

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iCoach
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 09:58      Profile for iCoach     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by greycat:
A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling
by Mark Twain

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.

Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

That was extremely painful. I think I am going to go dissolve in the corner...

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Never upset a goalie - getting punched with a blocker is not a pleasant experience - facemask or not.

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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 12:59      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i don't see the problem with using "hopefully". it is just a contraction of "I am speaking to you in a hopeful manner". i'm a syntactic libetarian: language changes, it's not something carved in stone to be learnt for ever more. grammar descibes language, it doesn't shackle it to the needs of narrow minds.

and frankly my dear, i don't give a damn

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there were so many stains on the road. squashed miss mitten-shaped stains in the universe. squashed frog-shaped stains in the universe. squashed crows that tried to eat the squashed frog-shaped stains in the universe. squashed dogs...

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Coffee_geek
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 15:23      Profile for Coffee_geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
*mumble mumble* Just because it's in the dictionary doesnt... make it... right *breaks down into tears, cursing the Dictionary*

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We got, ten minutes to get there
We got, ten minutes to go
Throw this one in for the money
Cause the next one's for the next show

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csk

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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 17:58      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking of LOTR spinoffs, has anyone seen the cartoon version? Is it any good?

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6 weeks to go!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 21:26      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, but I've heard it really, really sucks.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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csk

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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2003 21:51      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, OK. Saves me buying the DVD, I guess [Smile]

Apparently the radio play is well worth hearing, though.

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6 weeks to go!

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