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Author Topic: A Change in Perspective
MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2003 13:28      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Love stinks!

We had a mini family reunion this weekend at my house. Long story short, my sister and her family are here from Hawaii, so we got the rest of the family together so everyone could see everybody else while the Hawaiians were here.

I got to watching my Aunts and Uncles along with my own parents. I noticed a trend amongst my dad's brothers. Aunt Jean bosses around Uncle John... tells him when he's hungry, tells him when he's cold. Aunt Carol bosses around Uncle Bill... tells him when to eat, when to register at the hotel. Aunt Florence bosses around Uncle Gerry... tells him when to hold the dog, when to let the dog down, when to eat, when to put long pants on. And, of coruse, my own mother tells EVERYONE what to do and when and how to do it, especially my dad. None of the husbands are really happy, and none of the wives have husbands that "live up" to what they thought they could change them into when they were wed.

Bottom line: it appears that all of the blood-relatve males in my family have little backbone and simply do what their wives tell them to. Furthermore, because my own mother is a control freak, I've been doing whatever she wants me to, however she wants me to do it, for 21 years now. It's just easier to do what she wants because fighting back is nearly impossible.

Since I've grown up in this environment, it seems that, due to the rollmodels I've had, I may be doomed to the same fate, doomed to marry a woman that is as bossy and stubborn as my own mother, because, I, too, have no backbone.

Above and beyond that: I have yet to see any of my friends happy in their dating relationships. It never seems to turn out as wonderful as they think it will be going into it. Either their girlfriend has them by the balls (tells them what to do, and what not to do), or they become bossy or jealous themselves. However, they continue to date other people, even after an endless strem of dead-end relationships. I've often wondered why until I realized that I'm practically the only virgin left in our group.

It's all about the sex, or so it seems. My Uncles and my dad know that if they don't answer to every beck and call of their wives, they ain't gettin' any. My friends continue to date girls they, perhpas, don't even really like /all/ that much simply because it provides them the oppourtuniy to get their rocks off, and they bow gracefully to their girlfriend's becks and calls for the same reason.

THUS (finally a conclusion?): I am glad that I am still a virgin. I don't know just how grand real sex is; in fact, I can't even imagine it, and I like it that way! I don't know what I'm missing, and, from what I observed this weekend, I believe I prefer that to having had it and then missing it and wanting more. Sex is, afterall, more addictive then heroin.

I'm thinking about bowing out of the dating scene completely. And why the fuck shouldn't I? I finally have my life the way I like it, I work few hours a week, get paid damn well for it, have the van I've always dreamed of (which is REALLY COOL), and I'm even starting to get in shape. I don't need some girlfriend coming in and screwing it all up for me: putting me in debt, cutting into my precious Volkswagen bonding time, and, God forbid, intoducing me to wonderfully addicting full blown sexual intercourse, or worse, fatherhood! [Eek!]

I now see: life is good! [Cool]

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2338 | From: Southeast Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
iCoach
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Icon 10 posted June 30, 2003 14:01      Profile for iCoach     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Congrats,

You figured out what I wish I had known when I was 17 (my age when I got my "V-Card" punched). Sex is great, but the hassless you endure for it and because of it are a nightmare. I don't believe that every relationship ends with a spiked-choke chain wrapped around the man's genetalia, but it seems that is the pattern.

My friend is married to a beautiful woman, who thinks she has a big ass. She is bossy, believe I am the spawn of satan, and even when she is having a good time, it is like walking on egg-shells because you don't want to upset her.

Other friend is in a bit better situation, but they still fight, and it is irritating when they do. But at least they are civil to each other in public.

Me? I am still unwed, and for some reason (despite what I have born witness to) I want that to change. I have done the horizontal lambada erm... many... times and each time was less fulfilling than the last. Virginity is a gift to be given to someone you truely care about.

As for no backbone? I am sure it will grow in, I thought I didn't have one, then I started coaching, now I can push around 14 year olds like its nothing [Wink]

-Coach

--------------------
Never upset a goalie - getting punched with a blocker is not a pleasant experience - facemask or not.

Posts: 164 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Grey_girl

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2003 14:37      Profile for Grey_girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dunno... I wish I could come up with a better reply than this, but I'll get right to the point. It sounds as if you're surrounded by inconsiderate people.

How you treat people is a measure of your respect for them. I would never think of ordering someone around just because I'm involved with them. I wouldn't want to. If I'm going to date you, then I expect that you have a brain in your head and can think for yourself. I require that in the people I'm close to, male or female, romantic relationship or not. I may ask if you're hungry, cold, bored, whatever, but that is from being considerate rather than bossy. I'll be with someone because I enjoy their company. Having to care for them 24/7 defeats that purpose. I already have a child for that. But I ask this respectfully - please don't tar and feather all women with the same brush. We're not all bad! [Wink]

As for why people stay in those situations... my personal belief is that they believe it's normal behavior to be treated that way, not a desire for sex. Sex is too simple an answer.

And MMKK, I'm pretty confident it isn't your fate to marry someone stubborn and bossy. You've experienced it already, and you're a smart guy. You're already seeing what you want and don't want in a relationship. It's all a matter of standing up for it, but you've already taken the first step toward that by recognizing what's right and what's wrong.

Posts: 764 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coffee_geek
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2003 14:43      Profile for Coffee_geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MMKK, I applaud your decision. Being someone who attempts (and often succeeds) in discovering the full potential in life, both positive and netagive, I have learned some things. I try and live a regret-free life. Its tough. But by and large, I have succeeded. If I could go back and re-live any part of my life, I wouldn't change anything. However, the closest I have ever come to regret is the 'punching of my "V-card"'. While I don't actually regret any of the actual events involved, I do regret that I had a once-in-a-lifetime experience with someone who I now avoid.

Anyway, as for your words on relationships, I respectfully disagree, at least in part. Not /all/ relationships are like that, with one member threatening to withold sex from the other if demands are not met. I have seen many relationships between equals, a couple of which involved sex. The important thing is to not become addicted. Although that applies to all things in life, I suppose.

Virginity, like childhood, is not something that you should seek to be rid of as quickly as possible. This is why I can't stand many teen movies (particularly ones with pastry references). The 'grow-up-fast' viewpoint always depresses me. Innocence is something valuable to be cherished, methinks. Youth is the most unfaithful mistress...

Seeming and Dreaming,
Coffee

EDIT: Did a bit more thinking. The trick is to get to know someone well /before/ sex becomes an issue, and to keep your wits about you after that. That way you don't get stuck with a witch who you feel compelled to continue seeing for purely physical reasons.

--------------------
We got, ten minutes to get there
We got, ten minutes to go
Throw this one in for the money
Cause the next one's for the next show

Posts: 464 | From: Varies | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Drazgal
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2003 14:54      Profile for Drazgal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MacManKrisK, Im glad to hear that someone else also feels this way. I also noticed that not a single member of my family is in a happy ulfiling relationship (both my father and mothers side).

As for the answer just being sex? Well as a believer in Freud, I agree [Smile] Then again I don't belive that wsa the problem in the majority of cases in my family, rather a fear of dying alone, or settling maybe. I dont't know, but I have vowed that, that is something that I will never do if what I have seen is the consequences.

About being doomed. I dont think that is so. Many families have similar traits running through them, bad ones at that. Drink is a problems that runs on my dads side so I make a special effort not to let alcohol ever get a hold on me. Each person makes their own life if they want to and do not have to repeat the mistakes of their parents (hmmm that seems like something I could probably find a really cool quote for, ah well).

Posts: 154 | From: Dundee, United Kingdom | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2003 16:42      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First MMKK sex is not, repeat not addictive, unless you have an addictive personality, in which case you may already be addicted to porn and masturbation. The real stuff is much more rewarding but for most of us not easy enough to get to enable addiction that easily! A more common mistake that young people in particular make is expecting that a relationship will be some kind of answer to all their problems in life, when it generally only poses more questions. That seems to be the source of much teen trauma. It does however seem to me that you need not fear or worry about when you lose your virginity, just get out and socialise and a moment will come when you are with someone that you can laugh with and relax with and it will be fine. Not mindblowing as that takes practice, but fine.

Second there are no rules as to what makes a relationship work. It is too easy to just look at the outside and think that one partner is bossing the other around. The reality from the inside is usually a lot more complex than that, and love requires mutual respect. So the only question that matters is are these relationships loving ones? If so, the way they decide how to make their partnership work practically is immaterial. Family life is crazy and a rollercoaster, but it is one helluva lot more fulfilling than being alone. That rather than sex is the driving force.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

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Icon 10 posted June 30, 2003 20:14      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hrm... general reply... the sex issue was just a theory planted in my head whilst talking with a (aparently Freudian-slanted) friend of mine last night. To be honest, I don't actually know the innerds of each of these relationships, and, upon further thought, I would not be hesitant to say that each of the above-mentioned couples love each other very much. It's just that...I recently learned how to actually grab hold of and live my own life (instead of letting my mother live it for me) and, based on what I saw this weekend, I'm scared that a relationship may take away my control and put it in my girlfriend's hands, something I do not wish to have happen, ever.

Grey_girl: The bossyness isn't really disrespectful. The women in my family don't realize they're bossy, it's just the way they are. It seems, though, that the men have just grown to accept it.

Coffee_geek: I didn't say that all relationships were like that, I said that almost all of the relationships in my family (and those of my friends) were like that. Moreover, I was expressing my worry of falling into the same kind of relationship due to the conditioning of my rolemodels.

Callipygous said: Second there are no rules as to what makes a relationship work.

Thank you for reminding me of that. However, family trends seem to stick, and I am still fearful that I may wind up following in their footsteps. Perhaps it would be beneficial for me to observe my cousins and their marriages and see how they turned out. Perhaps I should just be careful.

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2338 | From: Southeast Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Noldoaran
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Icon 14 posted June 30, 2003 20:59      Profile for Noldoaran     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MMKK:
I agree, it is great to be able to make your own decisions. I don't like being controled either, but that doesn't mean you have give up dating. If someone is controling you too much, don't be afraid to tell them so. They probably don't realize this, and they will hopefully improve. If the don't, find someone else. (unless it's your mom being controling, then you are just out of luck.)
[Smile]

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schnurren
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2003 21:19      Profile for schnurren     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MMKK- it seems to me like you have already grown a backbone. Rejecting an institution that the entire society around you claims is necessary takes guts.

That aside, not every relationship is unhealthy. As long as the people involved have backbones before the relationship starts, and don't grow to be too dependant on each other.

Posts: 184 | From: PA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 02:10      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Women !

Can't live with 'em,
can't get them to dress up in little leather nazi storm-trooper outfits.

Even with all the problems you list, a half-minute hug from one of my little girls (or my bigger girl) make it all worthwhile.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Grey_girl

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 07:04      Profile for Grey_girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MMKK,

You're right about familial relationships influencing later romantic choices. I married my father - I know that now. And he's also an ex-husband now.

I wrote that it's disrespectful because in my own life, I see it that way. It's a sign of disrespect to walk around completely oblivious to how one's behavior effects others, and more
so to not assume responsibility for your behavior. No one has the right to behave as if they live in a vaccuum and they are the only one there. Your mileage may vary. [Smile]

However, I suspect you're also correct in that the men in your family have grown to accept it. Doesn't make it right though.

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Grey_girl

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 07:08      Profile for Grey_girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry.. hit the wrong button when editing...
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BellaDonna
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 07:14      Profile for BellaDonna     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MMKK-I'm living proof that you don't have to turn out like your parents/family. In my family there's always a dominate spouse. I thought I was doomed to such a life of bossing someone around or being bossed. I stayed with one boyfriend for 2 years, partly because of the sex, and partly because I thought he was as good as it was going to get. Trust me he wasn't. Shortly after I found my husband and we have a very balanced relationship. We don't fight. If we upset each other we talk about it. He encourages me to do what I want to do and I do the same for him.

However, we do have to sometimes compromise things we want to do for the sake of money, or time together, or one of us just doesn't want to do it. Therefore, your life can't be exactly as it is now, but making a compromise for someone you love unconditionally I think is worth it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that its cool to take a break and just be yourself for awhile, but that I don't think you should bow out completely. It can be done. And to paraphrase Ann Landers, people will walk all over you, but only if you let them.

--------------------
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
- Albert Einstein

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 15:00      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, erm... uh... I did it again...
 -
[Big Grin]

What it looks like to me is that a lot of people settle for "good enough." And, "good enough" is not Twoo Wuv, nor should it ever be confused for such.

Compromise is inevitable in a relationship, and being able to compromise is very important and the mark of a healthy relationship. It's when one person does all the "compromising" that there's a problem.

I took a Self Esteem class and that helped me take control of my own life. I learned in that class that people with poor Self Esteem are usually controlling or are easially controlled. I also learned that the majority of people have poor (even horrendously poor) self esteem and that it is often more prevalent among women.

When I started taking responsibility for the way I feel, and stoped blaming it on the rest of the world, the weather, my mother, my lack of a girlfriend, etc. I began to realize that I can control and take care of my own life. I learned that I can ask for things I need, and refuse things I don't want. I also learned what it's like to be free to make my own mistakes, learn from them, and forgive myself for them. When I learned to become less co-dependant, I started to enjoy life and truely live it for the first time since I was, like, 5 years old. Now, where was I going with this??

Hrm... well, aparently I'm a little scared that I may have to hand all that back over to some controling, demanding woman (NOTE that I am NOT saying that all women are controling and/or demanding!!!). Maybe I'm starting to give up hope that Twoo Wuv actually exists in the real world, but at least I've made a committment not to settle for "good enough," eh?

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2338 | From: Southeast Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 16:53            Edit/Delete Post 
I've thought about the "good enough" idea, because I feel I have a lot of preferences, seemingly too much to expect to ever find in any person at the same time (though I've seen a few positive signs). It helps to know what you really need in a relationship, and what you don't need, I suppose - how many preferences and ideals can you discard because they really don't matter, and which ones do matter?
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 17:37      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't ever settle for "good enough". If your self esteem course has worked, you know in a deciscion this important you should only settle for the very best, though as they say, you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince. (Hmm. not quite right but you may adjust that last remark according to your own sexuality!)

Anyway you will know when it is right. Even then it is not easy to make it work, so a relationship that is only "good enough" doesn't really have a chance.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Coffee_geek
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 17:57      Profile for Coffee_geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Never settle for Good Enough. But don't be so blinded by artificial preferences (like 'she must be a blonde', or 'she must like computers'). I'm not sure if 'True' Love (what does that mean, anyway?) exists or not, but I do believe that love can exist. I think that stepping away from the dating scene is a good idea, one that I might take soon myself, but you should always keep your doors open, or you might miss the person who is right for you.

What the hell /do/ people mean by True Love? It seems to be something that is bandied around (I'm guilty of this as much as anyone) without ever being clearly defined.

Seeming and Dreaming,
Coffee

--------------------
We got, ten minutes to get there
We got, ten minutes to go
Throw this one in for the money
Cause the next one's for the next show

Posts: 464 | From: Varies | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2003 18:35      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd think that Twoo Wuv (sorry, I've seen WAY too much Princess Bride lately) is something that can't be defined, at least in words. No...maybe I can at least kinda' lurch toward a reasonable definition...

True love is when two people care for each other so much that they stop caring for themselves. Furthermore, let it be noted that this can only happen when both people care so much for each other that they no longer have to care for themselves because the other cares for them so much.

Hrm...*shrug*

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2338 | From: Southeast Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged


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