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Author Topic: Why?
SupportGoddess

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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 01:07      Profile for SupportGoddess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, my curiosity has finally gotten the better of me.

Why does it seem like everyone is looking for "love"? Is it wanting regular sex and companionship? (Isn't that what *friends* are for? ) Are people just looking for someone to kill some time with or are they looking for someone that they will theoretically spend the rest of their life with? Are there practical reasons for this? (Dual income to help provide for a family or tax reasons or something?) Is to fill some kind of need for a 50's era Leave It to Beaver lifestyle or a buy in for the love-conquers-all media stereotype? Is it self-esteem related or an "all my friends are settling down" peer pressure thing? Social conditioning to feel that you should want this?

How do you plan on handling the future? I'm 24, my friends are settling down, getting married... the ones that got a head start are getting divorced or having kids. I can't conceive of being ready for that. I've changed alot in the last year, and I expect to look back a year from now and feel the same way. If *I* see a noticeable change in myself, other people must notice it too. Is it worth an investment of the time, energy, emotions, money, etc. that go into a relationship if a year or two or five down the road you have become incompatible? Should you try to force yourself into a sort of stasis to help preserve the relationship even if it means that you will wind up bitter and resentful because of lost opportunities and unfulfilled potential?

I guess I just don't understand the drive to find "someone." Why aren't people happy in their own right? Where does this need to have an intimate relationship with a significant other come from?

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Posts: 1150 | From: The Digital Temple | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
LifetimeTrekker
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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 02:42      Profile for LifetimeTrekker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
OK, my curiosity has finally gotten the better of me.

Why does it seem like everyone is looking for "love"? Is it wanting regular sex and companionship? (Isn't that what *friends* are for? )
Geez, SG, you don't *@#& your friends...sex always screws up the friendship.

Are people just looking for someone to kill some time with or are they looking for someone that they will theoretically spend the rest of their life with? Are there practical reasons for this? (Dual income to help provide for a family or tax reasons or something?) Is to fill some kind of need for a 50's era Leave It to Beaver lifestyle or a buy in for the love-conquers-all media stereotype? Is it self-esteem related or an "all my friends are settling down" peer pressure thing? Social conditioning to feel that you should want this?

Kinda. I think part of it is this social programming that is part of our culture.
There is a built-in need for companionship,
the desire for someone with whom to share life, to grow.

The practical reasons, aside from the dual income thing is the division of labor thing, but sharing one's life leads to improvement in it. I'm a marvellous cook, but I have no desire to clean house for myself--and I know how, but at this stage of my life I am no longer able to clean like I used to. But if someone were here, with me, I would be compelled to clean--not for me, but for them.

How do you plan on handling the future? I'm 24, my friends are settling down, getting married... the ones that got a head start are getting divorced or having kids. I can't conceive of being ready for that. I've changed alot in the last year, and I expect to look back a year from now and feel the same way. If *I* see a noticeable change in myself, other people must notice it too. Is it worth an investment of the time, energy, emotions, money, etc. that go into a relationship if a year or two or five down the road you have become incompatible? Should you try to force yourself into a sort of stasis to help preserve the relationship even if it means that you will wind up bitter and resentful because of lost opportunities and unfulfilled potential?

I'm 40, never been married, hardly dated. Hell, I'm not shy, I'm terrified. I've been rejected about as much as Quasimodo. And almost as popular. I've come to accept rejection as a natural state, though, like the frog in the gradually heated water.

My own bitterness and resentment stem from the rejection of all I have to offer--my love and affection are not good enough, my contributions are scorned and my presence is as welcome as a leper in an operating room.

I keep hoping that this, or I, will eventually change. That I can be accepted.
But I'm not holding my breath.
--
We all seek our comfort level, some feel more comfortable with others. I've noticed, through observation, that
people grow together until they grow apart.
I think that the most hideous ploy ever conceived was this 'happily ever-after' bullshit we keep feeding ourselves and our kids. We stay together as long as our goals, our growth remain compatible. Like ivy, we intertwine our lives with someone until we grow apart.

People are like diamonds and relationships are like the tumblers into which diamonds are put. With a little diamond grit tossed in, the diamonds rub against each other smoothing the surface rough spots and polishing that diamond to a shiny surface.


I guess I just don't understand the drive to find "someone." Why aren't people happy in their own right? Where does this need to have an intimate relationship with a significant other come from?


Why aren't people happy in their own right?
That's a choice, dear.

I see people banding together to make each other happy. That's a flawed premise; one cannot make another happy, one can choose to be happy and assist the other to choose happiness, but I cannot make you happier than you choose to be, nor can you make me happier than I choose.
--
I know I'm being contradictory on my positions, but I believe in the social observations (I see them born out again and again) and I know my personal experiences are/will be transitory. I still hope, some how, some day, I'll be able to get a chance to play the game like everyone else.

I'm not happy at being lonely, but I'm trying to be happy with being alone.


Posts: 669 | From: Albuquerque, NM, US | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
bull3t
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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 04:15      Profile for bull3t     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm 40, never been married, hardly dated. Hell, I'm not shy, I'm terrified. I've been rejected about as much as Quasimodo. And almost as popular. I've come to accept rejection as a natural state, though, like the frog in the gradually heated water.

I know how that is.. except for the 40 part..

- - -

On a serious note, I do think that alot of the want for "love" is pushed on us by our culture. This post has got me thinking.. Maybe I don't NEED someone..


Posts: 435 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Drasca
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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 12:53      Profile for Drasca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:

Why does it seem like everyone is looking for "love"? Is it wanting regular sex and companionship? (Isn't that what *friends* are for? ) Are people just looking for someone to kill some time with or are they looking for someone that they will theoretically spend the rest of their life with?

I can't answer for anyone else, but myself. I want the aforementioned *friend* for now, but I am personally looking for someone I'll be spending my life with--the great majority of it anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm a youth at 18 and in no hurry, but it remains in the recesses of my mind and loose list of long term objectives.

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:

How do you plan on handling the future? I'm 24, my friends are settling down, getting married... the ones that got a head start are getting divorced or having kids. I can't conceive of being ready for that.

Heh, I (at 18) don't plan to settle down until at *least* your age. My target age for settling down is around 30.

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
I've changed alot in the last year, and I expect to look back a year from now and feel the same way.

That's the thing about being young (at least my own). It is an unstable time. I assume that once I'm in a stabile position of steady job and household (might or might not happen) I won't be changing as much when I'm in my middle age.

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:

If *I* see a noticeable change in myself, other people must notice it too. Is it worth an investment of the time, energy, emotions, money, etc. that go into a relationship if a year or two or five down the road you have become incompatible?

How much you want to invest is your decision, but my life is unstable and considering that, I wouldn't invest too much.

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
Should you try to force yourself into a sort of stasis to help preserve the relationship even if it means that you will wind up bitter and resentful because of lost opportunities and unfulfilled potential?

Force.. I choose things, I do not *have* to do anything. Do you want to? Assuming you know the potential pro's and con's, it is a matter of choice. The choice is not easy and the pro's and con's not readily obvious (I recommend talking to a logical (dispassionate) friend as a sounding board).

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:

I guess I just don't understand the drive to find "someone." Why aren't people happy in their own right? Where does this need to have an intimate relationship with a significant other come from?

I think where the "need" to have an relationship, intimate or otherwise, has already been answered: Society and the mass media.

As to why people aren't happy in their own right, Americans, at least, hold that, "they can build a better mousetrap" and that there must besomething better to seek.

I personally have the "drive" to seek. However, I'm also disheartened at a great number of times. This is not to say I simply, "give up" totally, though I greatly want to at times, nor must I *have* to keep on going. I choose to pursue, and on my terms. I'll go when I'm damned ready.

-Drasca


Posts: 400 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 13:04      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Support Goddess, if it makes you feel at all better, my parents got married when they were your age and, looking back, feel that they were almost too young. They didn't get around to having kids for another six years or so.
Most of my extended family married in college or shortly thereafter and all of those marriages dissolved, in spite of the children they had.
As for the rest, I need some time to think...

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Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
LostInColorado

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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 18:09      Profile for LostInColorado     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are social creatures by nature. We have been designed/have evolved/were raised to want companionship. As soon as we reach a certain age, we seek relationships aiming toward sex and reproduction. Although reproduction seems to be less of a concern these days...

I'll echo the comments of LifeTimeTrekker. I am not happy being lonely. I was not happy after been rejected once more. In many way, I am still not happy about it. I can't let this keep me down. I cannot let myself be miserable just because someone does not want what I have to offer. I have to do my best to be happy being by myself, even if I would much rather be with someone I love.

There are many reasons why I am looking for someone... Mostly for the companionship. It would be nice to grow old with someone. And getting a screw every so often would be nice...

As for sex with friends... I believe that sex lies beyond friendship. It is such an intimate act and it is so loaded with emotions and meaning. Many times, when sex is mixed in with friendship, the friendship ends up being hurt. Sometimes, the friendship is strong enough to survive. Most of the time it is not. I guess it depends on each one's perception and view of sex. But then, there are the so called meaningless sex and one night stands...

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To the pessimist, the glass is halfway empty.
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Posts: 117 | From: Thornton, CO, USA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Holliday
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Icon 1 posted October 06, 2001 21:20      Profile for Doc Holliday   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that part of what human beings search for is a feeling of validation. If I can get a woman to marry me then I must be worth something to at least one woman in the world. Perhaps that's why some women (and some men)seek out married people to hook up with, because they are "worth" something.
As for sex with friends, I've lost a lot of friends that way. Simple friendships got way to complex


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SupportGoddess

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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 02:02      Profile for SupportGoddess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't understand why having sex with friends appears to be out of the question. If you have been friends with someone for 3 or 4 years, you know each other far better than someone that you have been dating for six months. (I mean a generic "you", I am not addressing anyone in particular ) I would think it is definately safer than going out and finding a stranger in a bar for a one-night stand. If you can go out rollerblading with a friend what is the difference between that and having sex with them? Both are physical activities that people are enjoy, except theoretically you have less chance of getting road rash during the latter. It seems like the concept of a relationship is linked with sex for a lot of people.

I think i'm having trouble getting to the question i am trying to ask... here goes: companionship seems to be pretty much a universal element in what people are looking for... is a relationship the only place that satisfactory companionship can be found for most people? I get the part about humans being social, but there are plenty of people in the world... why should you select just one person as a primary companion? Why is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship deemed necessary? (I am making an assumption here that most people intend to have that kind of relationship with someone they love.)

Which brings me to another question: Why is the love important? I can understand reasons for marriage as a practical business type of arrangement between two compatible people. More financial stability with two incomes, lower individual living expenses, a monagamous sexual partner reducing the chances of contracting an STD, etc. But why would love be a motivator to the point of selecting an unsuitable partner?

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Posts: 1150 | From: The Digital Temple | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
MrJ
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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 04:26      Profile for MrJ     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
Why does it seem like everyone is looking for "love"?

It seems to be something to do, everyone seems to be capable, and it never seems to get old. For this context I'll call "it" sex and/or companionship.

Is it wanting regular sex and companionship? (Isn't that what *friends* are for? )

I would say these aren't multiple "friends" but multiple "lovers". Some people like to play with definitions all day long, especially on these forums. I could suggest you call them friends because of the social complications of saying you have multiple lovers vs that of having sex with people you just call friends. Most people won't associate sex with friends but they will with lovers, and they place a negative atmosphere around multiple lovers. By including some frequency of sex in the definition of "friend" the line becomes very blurry and the saying "just friends" by itself loses meaning.

Are people just looking for someone to kill some time with or are they looking for someone that they will theoretically spend the rest of their life with?

Most are looking for something long-term, some sense of security. Just like I wouldn't look for a friend just for a year. I'd like my friendships to last forever. This is supposed to be even more important to someone one "loves" but people rush to judgement.

Are there practical reasons for this? (Dual income to help provide for a family or tax reasons or something?)

Evolution of cultures covers the raising of family issue, and some human brain characteristic on the love part. The efforts of procreation have in ancient times searched out stable relationships, since one didn't have a lot of options raising a kid alone. According to a show called "The Human Sexes" which covers this directly, even in cultures with polygamist relationships there is usually one person in the set who is said to be loved more than the others.

Is to fill some kind of need for a 50's era Leave It to Beaver lifestyle or a buy in for the love-conquers-all media stereotype? Is it self-esteem related or an "all my friends are settling down" peer pressure thing? Social conditioning to feel that you should want this?

Yes. People get caught up in dreams of social status and competition. When dreams fail they think it's their own fault and not something wrong with the dream. If they keeping trying somehow it will all work out just like it always does in the movies. For settling down, finding someone to live with can be difficult for some people, and seeing friends even somewhat happier living with someone makes a seemingly endless search less appealing. Seeing other people happy with something they have that you don't is a pretty good influence. Plus later down the line there's the whole living-through-the-kids issue.

How do you plan on handling the future?

I can only plan for death and taxes. I don't currently have much hope for anything else. I try to maintain some level of happiness by going insane in a slow, controlled fashion.

I've changed alot in the last year, and I expect to look back a year from now and feel the same way. If *I* see a noticeable change in myself, other people must notice it too. Is it worth an investment of the time, energy, emotions, money, etc. that go into a relationship if a year or two or five down the road you have become incompatible? Should you try to force yourself into a sort of stasis to help preserve the relationship even if it means that you will wind up bitter and resentful because of lost opportunities and unfulfilled potential?

No, at least for someone like me who doesn't care to just meet people. You really need to know yourself before you can be secure in a relationship. Then you know what you're looking for, and that way you can predict where the relationship is headed before making any major investment. I don't change much, and I know pretty well who I am. Part of this is not being a big people-pleaser. I don't like negative attention and I'd rather people around me were happy, but I'm not going to pretend I feel some way in order to form or maintain a relationship. I won't gain anything from that, as I can't learn much more about myself, and I don't care for random experiences. Since my requirements are complex I don't expect any relationships anytime soon.

I guess I just don't understand the drive to find "someone."

The sexual drive to find anyone combined with the personality conflict of finding those that are compatible. Throw in some sense of trust and security. Just thinking about waking up next to someone who I know cares about me every day for the rest of my life makes me a bit happier. Until I fall back to reality and realize I was daydreaming, sending me into a few minutes of depression. It's hard enough for me to find just one person I'd get along with that it's best just to concentrate on one. It's easier to get closer one at a time anyway. I hadn't really thought about this before, but if I add more females simultaneously to that dream just mentioned, who were all in agreement, I don't think that would be a problem. I just think that would be moving from the depressing probably-impossible, to the that's-definitely-just-a-dream impossible.

Why aren't people happy in their own right? Where does this need to have an intimate relationship with a significant other come from?

That's just how the neuron structure and natural distribution of chemicals in the brain seems to be set up and perhaps reinforced by environment over time. Prisoners locked up in solitary confinement or people otherwise deprived of social contact suffer mental and physical deterioration. Throw in a sex drive and some friendship trust/security and somehow the significant other thing is programmed in there.


Posts: 35 | From: near Grand Rapids, MI | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
MrJ
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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 05:19      Profile for MrJ     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
I don't understand why having sex with friends appears to be out of the question.

Like with a lot of things, value is generally associated with things that are scarce. The whole no-premarital-sex issue seems like it would fit in with that statement well. And with risky activities comes a need for trust. I don't know about you but I don't dish out trust to many people. People I might casually reference as "friends" would not be afforded anywhere near the same level of trust as someone I would call a "close friend". I'm not into risky activities so I'm going to require the "close friend". Also I have developed some concept that sex with one person would be a respectful and bonding activity. As I don't have nor have ever had any close female friends, I won't be doing anything sexual anytime soon, and I can't exactly approach my feelings in reality.

If you have been friends with someone for 3 or 4 years, you know each other far better than someone that you have been dating for six months. (I mean a generic "you", I am not addressing anyone in particular ) I would think it is definately safer than going out and finding a stranger in a bar for a one-night stand.

Some couples split after being married for 20 years. Oops! Some people don't really know their friends no matter how long they've "known" them. It's probably safer, but I don't think that would be the solution to the world's sexual relationship issues.

If you can go out rollerblading with a friend what is the difference between that and having sex with them?

Wow... you don't even need to be friends to go out rollerblading with someone. In my case there's a big difference in trusting someone not to shove you into a wall or traffic or something and trusting them to be respectful in sexual activity. What the heck kind of rituals do you perform while rollerblading? But perhaps I shouldn't comment here, as I have zero experience in either activity.

It seems like the concept of a relationship is linked with sex for a lot of people.

It is, supported by religions and risks. There's also an emotional attachment part of it, chemicals released in the body during sex influence the desire to be with the person.

is a relationship the only place that satisfactory companionship can be found for most people?

I'm looking for a lot of things in someone to be close to, and if I'm that close to them I'm probably not going to call it "friends" anymore simply based on my definitions, unless there was a decision to not be anything more than friends. Sex would be more than "friends" to me. I want something close, and there are only a couple things we really have universally to work with in this world: mind and body. Sex is kind of as far as it goes, and I seem to be reserving it for a case that deserves that. It's not like I've been otherwise tempted though, I'm never in any environment where sex is a natural progression of events, nor do I have any "friends" I could start down that path with.

I get the part about humans being social, but there are plenty of people in the world... why should you select just one person as a primary companion? Why is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship deemed necessary?

As far as I'm concerned there aren't plenty of people in the world. I have a simple/boring lifestyle and high standards and I do not intend on changing. Keeping with that, I don't have a lot of options. The other reasons I think I've mentioned a couple times now.

Which brings me to another question: Why is the love important?

It just feels better. I swivel in my chair and sit in odd positions in front of my computer because for some reason sitting still with perfect posture just isn't good enough.

But why would love be a motivator to the point of selecting an unsuitable partner?

This is a completely different issue now. In general people are stupid, and I don't mean in only the cynical approach although that applies too. They pick an unsuitable partner because they don't know what else to do. They have a dream from whatever source, parents, religion, popular entertainment, friends, and they try to duplicate the emotional results directly rather than work on what would eventually evolve into emotional results, or would soon indicate incompatibility. Many people are taught that almost all relationships can be worked out, so they try really hard when they should have already known it wouldn't have worked. For example some woman on Blind Date (TV show) last night said a bunch of bad things about her date's personality, but finished with "but I'd go out with him again because he's cute." And she had said in her intro she was looking for something lasting and meaningful. As the host said, "Yeah... let's move on..."


Posts: 35 | From: near Grand Rapids, MI | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lex
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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 08:59      Profile for Lex   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm... sex is an animal instinct, healthy, natural, and vital to our survival. Monogomy is partially instinctual also. By default (ie, unless we conciously choose otherwise) we tend to want to have someone around to have sex with that only has sex with you. You want to pass on your genes, so having a mate all to yourself is often a priority. At the same time, it is also instinctual for both genders to seek out other sources of genes. Basically it was a game of knock up everyone nearby without anyone else knocking up your lifemate. Since everyone was playing this game, everyone got a bit frustrated after a while, and as religion developed those in charge of it built in forced monogomy into the religion. This notion has persisted up to today, even with many of those who have no religion. Its part of the culture.

One of the main reasons for wanting to find "the one" I suppose might be the whole child support thing. If your instincts succeed at their task and you're not married to the person, the court can make you pay up for the next 18 years or so. Its even less convenient for the female. Because of the imperfection of birth control and the tendency for females to not want abortions for moral, ethical, or maternally instinctual reasons, many people would just prefer to marry someone and not have to worry about all that. Because of this, people like to try to find someone whom they wouldn't mind spending many many years with so they can quench their instinctual desire to reproduce.

I do not have sex because I don't want to deal with the reprecussions. I also can't get any, but thats not the point. I search for someone that I wouldn't mind living with for instinctual reasons mainly. It would preferably be a friend who I like spending lots of time with, because thats a lot of time to spend with someone.

So, what would you do in the event that you were gotten pregnant by why of your friends? Marry him? Abort it? Take care of it yourself? Make the guy pay child support?

Sex without marriage can get pretty messy in this society. I'll just do without for now, especially being a male with no say in the matter of abort it, keep it, or put it up for adoption.


Posts: 977 | From: University of Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
LostInColorado

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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 10:31      Profile for LostInColorado     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess it all depends on how you define friendship. Your definition may be very different from other people's. It also depends on how you and your friends view sex. Your level of comfort with sex may be a lot higher than other people's.

In general, sex and intimacy do complicate relationships, especially when the desires of the friends involved are different. One of the partners may take a longer view, hoping for repeats later... The other one may not or see it as a mistake, therefore precluding further sex. This mismatch will introduce tension into the friendship and will strain it. If the sexual experience was not quite welcomed or desired (for example, alcohol was involved), there may be a loss of trust between the friends, degrading the friendship.

On the other hand, there are situations where 2 friends may want to move to a more intimate relationship. Sex may be a way to achieve this goal. But it does tend to be accompanied with some form of exclusivity between the 2 partners. And there is usually an expectation of continuing for a while.

If you and your friends are comfortable with having sex with you, great! Enjoy it, both you and your friends. A question though: are all of your friends that you are sexually active with know that you are sexually active with other people? If it is known and accepted, it should be fine, but if it is not known, if there is an expectation of exclusivity you are inviting trouble. It goes down to a question of trust again.

Just my .03CAD.

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LostInColorado

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To the pessimist, the glass is halfway empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.


Posts: 117 | From: Thornton, CO, USA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xanoxt R'rilander
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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 13:34      Profile for Xanoxt R'rilander     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by LifetimeTrekker:
this 'happily ever-after' bullshit

Hrm. I quite like it as it is. 'happily ever-after' dinner , as it was originally intended...

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Be afraid. Be very, very afraid!


Posts: 319 | From: Moscow, Russia, Earth | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xanoxt R'rilander
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Icon 1 posted October 07, 2001 14:32      Profile for Xanoxt R'rilander     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
OK, my curiosity has finally gotten the better of me.

Why does it seem like everyone is looking for "love"?


I do not understand the concept of looking for "love". I always thought it spontaneousely happens after you know the person for short/extended/indefinite/random/nonexistant/infinite(underline apropriate) period of time.

It also usually tends to disappear as you live with person, and see sides of him/her/it/they/whatnot that you usually don't see when you are not living with them. And it ruins(err... modifies) the amorous picture of them you had. Or something like that in theory.

On other hand my opinion seems to be almost nonexistant on the question.

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ZorroTheFox
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Icon 6 posted October 08, 2001 14:30      Profile for ZorroTheFox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I gave up looking for love long ago. I prefer to look for fun and if love happens, then it is a bonus. Love is vastly overrated and has lost most of its meaning anyway. Divorce runs in the family and I am determined to break the cycle, even if it means staying single.......Z
Posts: 3046 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geekatrix
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2001 15:49      Profile for Geekatrix     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanoxt R'rilander:
I do not understand the concept of looking for "love". I always thought it spontaneousely happens after you know the person for short/extended/indefinite/random/nonexistant/infinite(underline apropriate) period of time.

For what people have been saying here, I get the feeling they're looking for a number of things, many of them very pragmatic, some of them emotional, and not many that qualify as True Love. The biggest obstacle to finding love is having expectations of what it should be and rejecting anything that's not what you had in mind. The difficulty shouldn't be in finding someone who lives up to what you think you want; it should be in deciding whether someone who isn't exactly what you had in mind could nevertheless be a great catch if you just roll with the flow a little bit.

quote:
Originally posted by Xanoxt R'rilander:
It also usually tends to disappear as you live with person, and see sides of him/her/it/they/whatnot that you usually don't see when you are not living with them. And it ruins(err... modifies) the amorous picture of them you had. Or something like that in theory.

Well, that depends. If you were just in love with an idealized, "amorous picture" of someone, it's bound to happen sooner or later. On the other hand, if you understand that a person's faults are inextricably tied to his charms, you have a good shot at things working out. My snookie-wookums of ten years can be a screaming pain in the ass and highly impractical (7th year grad student, 'nuff said), but he can also be completely delightful. I'm more than willing to pay the price for having him around.

In a way I'm not qualified to write about "looking for love" since I've never had to--love found me first. I headed off to college figuring I'd play the field for ten years or so before starting any serious spouse shopping, and BLAMMO! There was some extraordinary coincidence involved, but a lot of the credit goes to recognizing a good thing when it came along and not rejecting it just because it wasn't what I had planned for myself at the time.

Yes, True Love happens. Be cynical if you like, but I stand proudly as a counterexample. I'm no more worthy than the next person, I was just willing to totally change my life when my best shot at happiness can along.


Posts: 154 | From: NYC | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xanoxt R'rilander
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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2001 22:10      Profile for Xanoxt R'rilander     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Geekatrix:
Well, that depends. If you were just in love with an idealized, "amorous picture" of someone, it's bound to happen sooner or later. On the other hand, if you understand that a person's faults are inextricably tied to his charms, you have a good shot at things working out.

Erm, I thought that a person in the eyes of the other person is just a "picture": a collection of facts(collected by whatever means: talking, sences, whatnot), often not 100% correct ones, you know about that person. So, I suppose that "love" begins when facts you got (idealized or not) match some kind of subconcious criteria. Knowing that your(and everyone elses) wrongs are extentions of their strong points is a must .

quote:
Yes, True Love happens. Be cynical if you like, but I stand proudly as a counterexample. I'm no more worthy than the next person, I was just willing to totally change my life when my best shot at happiness can along.

I am yet to find empirical evidence for that statement.

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SupportGoddess

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Icon 1 posted October 08, 2001 22:20      Profile for SupportGoddess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by LostInColorado:
A question though: are all of your friends that you are sexually active with know that you are sexually active with other people? If it is known and accepted, it should be fine, but if it is not known, if there is an expectation of exclusivity you are inviting trouble. It goes down to a question of trust again.

Actually I have only one partner at a time. Basically if I can fulfill that particular desire with one person, I don't see the need for another partner. And if that person is not meeting whatever needs I might have, unlike in a relationship, I am free to find someone that does. Safety is actually a big deal to me, so there is definitely an understanding that should either of us have sex with another person the other will be informed. That way if he says "I met this chick in a bar last night and ended up taking her home" I at least have the ability to make an informed decision on whether I would have sex with him again before he has been checked out. Unlike in a relationship where if one person has sex with someone else. In that situation I feel that there is far more risk, because your partner is far less likely to tell you due to things like guilt or fear of the reaction.

quote:
Originally posted by Lex:
So, what would you do in the event that you were gotten pregnant by why of your friends? Marry him? Abort it? Take care of it yourself? Make the guy pay child support?

In the unlikely event that it managed to happen despite the birth control pills and the condoms, I would have an abortion. I have absolutely no intention of ever having children. I don't have the inclination.


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Posts: 1150 | From: The Digital Temple | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geekatrix
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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2001 07:34      Profile for Geekatrix     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanoxt R'rilander:
I am yet to find empirical evidence for that statement.


What? A complete stanger using a silly nickname on an internet forum claiming to be a prime example doesn't count as emprical evidence??


Posts: 154 | From: NYC | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Drasca
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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2001 10:39      Profile for Drasca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Geekatrix:
I headed off to college figuring I'd play the field for ten years or so before starting any serious spouse shopping, and BLAMMO!

Ack, I cannot believe what I am hearing. Quit ruining my plans of singledom!!! That was my plan!

quote:
Originally posted by Geekatrix:

What? A complete stanger using a silly nickname on an internet forum claiming to be a prime example doesn't count as emprical evidence??

Technically, you're right. You are *one* example that is evidence, however, the fact is he is argueing that the evidence is not broad enough to be convincing. One result doesn't make for great evidence.

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:

I don't understand why having sex with friends appears to be out of the question.

The above replies seems quite apparent that people have cultural and social issues (forgo-ing pragmatic ones for now) that make sex (with each other) a "touchy" or "delicate" almost taboo subject among friends-to be joked about but not taken seriously. There's an imagined distinction for them between friend and SO. Frankly, I think it's all in our heads.

I realize some people have the "friends with benefits" relationship, but personally I cannot imagine how to successfully approach with such a proposal. It is an awkward subject for many people and I cannot conceive who would respond and act "normally" after the question is broached. This proposal would take a very secure person indeed to discuss with.

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:

Why is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship deemed necessary? (I am making an assumption here that most people intend to have that kind of relationship with someone they love.)

I consider the sexual part isn't necessary (though a bonus). Yes, I'd prefer it, but that is just a milestone used to exemplify some level of comfort with each other (but the ideal is not always achieved).

However, I do consider being secure with the other person necessary. Physical comfort with the other:no general problems with nudity/touching. Emotional support: Will help pick me up, not kick me when I'm truly down (though not when I'm just complaining for its own sake-hehe)

quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
Why does it seem like everyone is looking for "love"?

I'd like to, but I have little time for the search. The most I've been doing for "looking for love" is a bit of pining in my breaks between study and play.

Question: What are you, SupportGoddess, looking for?

-Drasca


Posts: 400 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2001 11:39      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SupportGoddess asked:
is a relationship the only place that satisfactory companionship can be found for most people?

Of course not. In fact, a relationship is almost guaranteed to not provide enough companionship to satisfy most people. Friends, pets, children and co-workers, clubs and parties are some of the more common sources of further companionship and socialization. Without these extended social structures, most people will quickly tire of each other and move on.

SupportGoddess asked:
I get the part about humans being social, but there are plenty of people in the world... why should you select just one person as a primary companion?

To start with, selecting a single person for a relationship allows you to focus your attention on the one person and lessens the chance of them feeling left out of your life which would tend to make them feel unwanted. Picking a single person also eliminates any worries about "playing favorites".

SupportGoddess asked:
Why is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship deemed necessary?

Increasingly it's not considered necessary. Most people still desire a lifelong relationship because there's a sense of security that comes from knowing your lover will be with you during long-term events like paying for a house or raising kids. Still, divorce no longer has much of a stigma attached to it. I daresay you won't find many people these days who would refuse to get involved with someone simply because they'd been divorced.


SupportGoddess asked:
Why is the love important?

Technically, it's not. While they're less common than in days gone by, marriages of convenience still take place and sometimes last for a lifetime. Most people would rather being in a relationship with someone who loves and cares about them, however, than with someone who needs them around for a green card or their money.

SupportGoddess asked:
But why would love be a motivator to the point of selecting an unsuitable partner?

Because a lot of people have crappy lives and have been taught from childhood that if they find "true love", it will make everything all right and they'll live happily ever after. Instead of taking responsibility for making their lives better and being happy on their own, they're seeking desperately for that one special fairy tale romance that will fix everything that they haven't. As a result, they leap into relationship after relationship in a futile attempt to replace their unhappiness in themselves with happiness in external things.

<rant>
Incidentally, the phrase "true love" really pisses me off. I've been in love before and trust me, it was as real and true as anything anyone else has felt. Those who use that phrase may not realize how dismissive they're being towards other people's feelings, but that in no way reduces my desire to whack them with the nearest blunt object.
</rant>



Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Geekatrix
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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2001 13:25      Profile for Geekatrix     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:


Incidentally, the phrase "true love" really pisses me off. I've been in love before and trust me, it was as real and true as anything anyone else has felt. Those who use that phrase may not realize how dismissive they're being towards other people's feelings, but that in no way reduces my desire to whack them with the nearest blunt object.


As the only person to use that phrase so far in this thread, I feel obliged to respond. First of all, now that you point it out I can see how that expression can be seen as being dismissive of other people's feelings. While I simply wanted to express the idea of "love/relationships that don't suck", I in no way meant to imply that love as an emotion is not real or valid under other circumstances.

So many people on this thread talk about relationships in totally pragmatic terms and conclude that it's easier to get some good porn/sex toys and go it alone, and I wanted to point out that some unworthy mortals do manage to get into relationships with another dimension entirely. To those fiercely independent souls who have given up finding someone they can fit neatly into their little relationship pidgeon hole, all I can say is, yeah, you shouldn't even bother trying because love just doesn't work the way you want it to. Besides, if all you're looking for is a sex partner who will help pay the mortgage and take out the trash, that's all you're going to get.

When I was in junior high, I started thinking about why some people lead so much more interesting lives than others. Some adults I knew had lived in exciting places, held fascinating jobs, and practiced unusual hobbies that they loved. Others arrived home to their bungalow after another 9-5 day in the cubicle and watched sitcoms every night. I concluded that the only way to have the first kind of life instead of the second is to be vigilant for opportunities (or actively create them for yourself) and willing to change course when something good comes along even if it's something you never really considered before. Obviously this is risky, and you have to be careful about the choices you make, but you'll never leave the beaten path of life if you write off possibilities just because they weren't part of your original plan. I've started to think that love works the same way.

The main difference, unfortunately, is that it doesn't work so well unless BOTH parties are thinking in those terms; therein lies the real difficulty. But you have to change your own attitude to even stand a chance.

quote:
Originally posted by Drasca:

Technically, you're right. You are *one* example that is evidence, however, the fact is he is argueing that the evidence is not broad enough to be convincing. One result doesn't make for great evidence.

Now that I've bothered to read the "Smilies Legend" link on the reply form, I will ammend my previous statement:

What? A complete stanger using a silly nickname on an internet forum claiming to be a prime example doesn't count as emprical evidence??


Posts: 154 | From: NYC | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Roceal
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Icon 1 posted October 09, 2001 15:20      Profile for Roceal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SupportGoddess:
Is it worth an investment of the time, energy, emotions, money, etc. that go into a relationship if a year or two or five down the road you have become incompatible? Should you try to force yourself into a sort of stasis to help preserve the relationship even if it means that you will wind up bitter and resentful because of lost opportunities and unfulfilled potential?

One should never be expected to artificially force their personality in any direction simply to preserve a relationship. Whether it's remaining the person that someone else originally fell in love with despite a desire to grow or develop or change, or becoming someone you're not to please another, that is, in essence, a lie. And relationships founded on lies usually don't last well.

However-- relationships are not static things, either. They grow and change too. Sometimes the people in the relationship don't like the way it changes and choose to end it. That's because many people don't handle change well. A good partner is one who will grow with you in a relationship, who loves to discover who you become without getting stuck on who you were. Because ultimately, you're still you, even if the things that change aren't only superficial. Sometimes in relationships people can become incompatible. But it's not as if your only two choices are stay the same and remain compatible or change and break up. My mom was 23 when she got married, and she said that was too young for her. But she and my dad have been married for over 25 years, and despite some lows (but probably more highs) I don't think in the long run she's regretted it at all. Marriage doesn't always make finding your individuality impossible. It will probably make it harder, though. Marriage is a big commitment, and I think people don't always realize what kind of commitment it means when they do get married.

quote:
I guess I just don't understand the drive to find "someone." Why aren't people happy in their own right? Where does this need to have an intimate relationship with a significant other come from?

I can only speak from personal experience here. I'm a pretty solitary person, but when I bond with someone on any level, platonic, romantic, whatever, I bond with them, and the time I share with that person is equally as good as my alone time. I find I need a balance. There are times when being on my own is not enough, because I cease to grow as a person. Spending time with someone else challenges me and introduces me to new things. (And then there are times when I just need to be a hermit and have Andrea time and journal and read a book and keep my secrets.) Having a boyfriend, though, intensifies all the benefits of a bond. It also does not, in my mind, exclude my alone time. If my s.o. can't allow me my little timeouts, he's no s.o. o' mine. I don't know why other people seek out relationships-- it could be a lot of things: biology, a sense of duty to society/family, insecurity, lust, no real reason at all, probably as many reasons as there are people.

I found a relationship after 2 things occurred to me: I knew I would be OK if I didn't find one and I gave up being bitter about whether or not I had a boyfriend and stopped caring what other people were doing about relationships; and I also knew it would be a great adventure and teach me something I needed to know, which was how to share and be vulnerable with someone, which, as an independent cuss, I am very bad at. I stepped into a relationship for the same reasons I form friendships, or go on trips, or teach myself a new skill. In other words, it is essentially part of life for me. Not a required one. Just another step along the path.


Posts: 159 | From: That place, you know, with the thing | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xanoxt R'rilander
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Icon 6 posted October 09, 2001 20:28      Profile for Xanoxt R'rilander     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Geekatrix:
What? A complete stanger using a silly nickname on an internet forum claiming to be a prime example doesn't count as emprical evidence??

I thought that empirical(post experience) evidence is something you experienced yourself.

I could have been wrong, go figure

------------------
Be afraid. Be very, very afraid!


Posts: 319 | From: Moscow, Russia, Earth | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 10, 2001 09:29      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Geekatrix:
My little rant wasn't meant to be specifically directed at you, just at the general use of that phrase. If it seemed as though I was targetting you specifically, I apologize.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged


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