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Author Topic: 2 short months
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 20:38      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, that's a great list, FS! Number three is quite hysterical... literally. [Razz]

I do have a mild bone to pick, though:

quote:
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
Pharoah--not God--commanded the Hebrew midwives to kill all the male babies born to the Hebrew women. But as far as the tenth plague and the death of the Egyptian first-born sons? I can see how it fits into the bigger picture, but it definitely does show a side of God that's more challenging to reconcile to my understanding of God.

quote:
Exodus 1:
8 Then a new king, who did not know about Joseph, came to power in Egypt. 9 "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become much too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country."

11 So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 12 But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites 13 and worked them ruthlessly. 14 They made their lives bitter with hard labor in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their hard labor the Egyptians used them ruthlessly.

15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 "When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live." 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. 18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"

19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive."

20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.

22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: "Every boy that is born [b] you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live."



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Posts: 3851 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mac D
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 20:39      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So me looking for a pen pal turned into this? [Applause]

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Posts: 1449 | From: Where I am is very relative to my location at that time. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
fs

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 20:42      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
So me looking for a pen pal turned into this? [Applause]

You never know, with this group.

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Posts: 1973 | From: The Cat Ship | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 20:42      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
So me looking for a pen pal turned into this? [Applause]

Yeah... we just figured we should give you some practice writing before you actually get overseas. [Wink]

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Posts: 3851 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mac D
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 20:47      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
So me looking for a pen pal turned into this? [Applause]

Yeah... we just figured we should give you some practice writing before you actually get overseas. [Wink]
If

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 21:43      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Quoting FS-
This is an honest question, I'm curious, since Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:17 give the distinct idea that unless specifically contravened, OT still applies. I can't think of where sacrificing a bull on the Sabat was negated?

Does this mean the GC will get free stakes every Sunday from Rhonnie? Perhaps that's why Garlic Guy needed to make the new sauces; speaking of, Rhonnie should stock up Garlic Head for the left over meat. Unless, which I don't know for sure, there is a rule against eatting sacrificed animals (in which case ship it to me, I'm a pagan after all). MMMMMmmmmmm.... Beef, it's what's for dinner.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 22:05      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What kind of stake would you like, GM? A sprig of holly through your heart or a splintered 2x4? [Razz]

As far as sacrificing goes, Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, thus negating our need to sacrifice animals. And too, He elimintated our need for a priest to intercede between us and God. When He died, the veil of the temple that separated the holiest part from the rest of the people tore from top to bottom, giving everyone access to God if they want it.

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Posts: 3851 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
fs

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 22:32      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
As far as sacrificing goes, Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, thus negating our need to sacrifice animals.

It's all well and good for you lot to keep saying it, but where does it say it in the Christian Bible? (Especially as the previously mentioned bits seem to be of the opinion that Jesus thought people should be sticking to the old stuff too, unless specifically told otherwise. I'm curious as to the verse where Jesus said it's ok to eat pigs, too, if anyone wants to share.)

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Posts: 1973 | From: The Cat Ship | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 22:50      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jesus as sacrifice, nullifying the need for animal sacrifices: Hebrews 10

What comes out of a man makes him unclean, not what goes into his mouth: Mark 7

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3851 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 06:23      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All this talk of carrying out Old Testament commands now just makes me wish that more people out there had actually read the Old Testament.

Also, because it's on topic and I though it was timely:
quote:
Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.


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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 06:44      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I once worked with an ultra right wing cristian coworker. We got along quite well and became friends. One day I politely asked hinm how he reconciles the fact he eats shellfish wears cotton/ poly blends / trims his beard / doesn't kill people for not believeing what he does and a host of other things that are all in the old testiment.( I mainly asked about the part wear it says men shouldn't trim their beard) He said that all those rules were a covenent between the jewish people and god. If they follow the rules the get to go to the land of milk and honey. As he was not Jewish he explained he is not part of the covenent and does not have to follow those rules. The thing is , is that the "homosexuality is wrong" thing is in the old and new testiments. I took his explanation as acceptable.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 07:08      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Didn't you know, People just make up there own rules on every thing in every religion. Then they find a passage or two to explain there actions. Even if the whole story doesn't fit.

And by the way if you look at the broad picture Jews, Christians and muslums are all the same religion. They all worship the same thing just with a different understanding of it. So why are they always trying to kill each other?

Religion is and always has been the number one reson behind death, pain and hatred. 5000 years ago and it still holds true today.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 07:33      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"It's not so much God I have a problem with. It's his fan club I can't stand." -- Unknown
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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 09:07      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FireSnake said:
quote:
since Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:17 give the distinct idea that unless specifically contravened, OT still applies.
Demosthenes, Ashitaka, MacD, and even newf... this applies to everything you said too.
<soapbox>
quote:
For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another.
-- Galatians 5: 13-15

I have a big problem with what I call "Old Testament Christians." The Old Testament was very judgemental, it is essentially the record of the attempt *by man* to codify faith, something that cannot be measured as it is individual to each person who posesses it. Moses came down from the mountain with 10 commandments, true, but the first thing humans do when confronted with rules is to try to skirt them. By the time Jesus came on the scene, Moses' 10 commandments had turned into some 400some.

Let us consider the fact that the religious eleet some 2000 years ago conspired to kill Jesus. I don't think many people stop to think exactly /why/ they wanted to kill him, to get rid of him. Jesus blasphemed, not against God, but against the establishment. His message was a simple one (instead of 400+ rules and regulations to follow), "Love one another." (John 13:34) He threatened the establishment and it's rules by showing people a new and better way, telling people (in essense): 'Screw the rules! Stop worrying about what others do and judging them for it, it is none of your worry! Just love one another and in doing so you'll have fulfilled the law!' You can see how, if you were in the business of rulemaking for fun and prophet (pun intended), that this would be seen as threatening to your established way of life.

So this is the issue I have with "Old Testament Christians." They judge people. These are the "God Hates Fags" people, and the radical Christians that blow up abortion clinics, and the Christians that tell other people that they're going to hell. What they don't see is that it's this *exact* same way of thinking that sent Jesus to his own humiliating, bloody, abusive, public death.

Have we become so blinded by our own plethoroa of rules and regulations that we've once again forgotten what it's all about?
</soapbox>

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get rich and you still die"


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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 09:48      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:

I have a big problem with what I call "Old Testament Christians."

Yep. I often find those types very disturbing. The biggest problem is that they often ignore not only the scriptural, but also the historical context of much of the Bible.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 10:16      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:

I have a big problem with what I call "Old Testament Christians."

Yep. I often find those types very disturbing. The biggest problem is that they often ignore not only the scriptural, but also the historical context of much of the Bible.
Not ignore more or less think it's funny that people base their lives on a work of fiction. Yes there are some historical things in there that are true. But the city of Castle Rock is a true city too. Doesn't mean I belive every thing Steven King writes is fact.

Edit: I just thought of a great exmple. The movie Saving Private Ryan. Did WWII happen: Yes, Did the battle at the start of the movie happen: Yes, Did the story of 8 soldiers looking for Private ryan happen? Probably not. It was a work of fiction told durring a real event. Same thing in the bible. It was a mix of Fiction tied in with Fact.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 10:42      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:

I have a big problem with what I call "Old Testament Christians."

Yep. I often find those types very disturbing. The biggest problem is that they often ignore not only the scriptural, but also the historical context of much of the Bible.
Not ignore more or less think it's funny that people base their lives on a work of fiction. Yes there are some historical things in there that are true. But the city of Castle Rock is a true city too. Doesn't mean I belive every thing Steven King writes is fact.

Edit: I just thought of a great exmple. The movie Saving Private Ryan. Did WWII happen: Yes, Did the battle at the start of the movie happen: Yes, Did the story of 8 soldiers looking for Private ryan happen? Probably not. It was a work of fiction told durring a real event. Same thing in the bible. It was a mix of Fiction tied in with Fact.

Fiction is a poor word for it. It would be better described as mythology (in the academic sense).

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
fs

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 11:00      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:
Have we become so blinded by our own plethoroa of rules and regulations that we've once again forgotten what it's all about?
</soapbox>

MMKK, I have to say, I do like the perspective that you bring on Christianity based discussions. In the Christian God personality lottery, you wound up with the "kinder, gentler" variety.

Whenever humans turn something into an organization, with officials and rules, it gets to the point where you can't walk without stepping in some sort of red tape and obedience to the rules is elevated above devotion to the ideal that the organization was built up around.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2006 11:23      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:
For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

That, sir, is something I can subscribe to.
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted April 27, 2006 14:36      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK wrote:
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Does this apply to self-mutilating/suicidal types too? 'cause I'm not sure I want them lovin' me as they love themselves...

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