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Author Topic: Does a Union Label stand for a better product
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 05:27      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I have been accused of being very pro-union, here is my position:

____ Company A makes a quality product but treats its employees like dirt.

____ Company B makes a quality product but has a good working relationship with the employees.

____ Company C makes a good product but the employees own the company.


____ Depending on how bad things are at company A the employees may vote to forfeit some of their wages to be treated fairly.

____ You would never get a union vote at companies B and C Unionized companies earned the union. If you were to investigate SAS software, you would find that their people are treated by the bosses as assets, not burden.

____ Nope a Union label means that the company at one time treated the workers like POOP.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 06:54      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think a company has to treat their workers well to get a good product, and I see norelation to wetehr or not it is a union shop or not. ( a company can treat thier worker poorly and still be a union shop and a non-union shop can treat thier employees very well.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 07:07      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Ash, as far as it goes A union label only tells us that at one time, the management of the company treated the workers so poorly as to cause them to unionize. There has to be motivation to give up part of your after tax wages.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 07:35      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
____ Ash, as far as it goes A union label only tells us that at one time, the management of the company treated the workers so poorly as to cause them to unionize. There has to be motivation to give up part of your after tax wages.

I think you kind of hit the main issue now.

At one time, there was very little regulation as to how a company could treat their employees. This meant that management could do more or less as they pleased. So Unions were formed in answer to this type of treatment.

The issue now, is that most companies are under state and federal guidelines to keep this to a minimum. So what does the union do for these shops now?

If you are paying a few hundred dollars each month to be a member of a union that has no real purpose, then why bother?

You feel I am wrong about this, but many non-union shops actually make real money, offer better products, and have happier employees than unionized shops. Unions have recently tried to be the bastions of the old world of employee and employer relations. The reality is, business now moves too fast for those unions. The unions have proven to be too rigid in the face of financial troubles, and in many cases the unions take more from the company than they give back.

Pro-union is not a bad thing. Blindly pro-union is.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 07:56      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TheMoMan wrote:
A union label only tells us that at one time, the management of the company treated the workers so poorly as to cause them to unionize.

It doesn't even tell you that for certain.

I worked at an automotive glass factory at one time and we wound up being a UAW plant. The main reason for this was that the UAW had worked out a deal with Ford to support unionizing the plant in return for concessions in a contract negotiation at another plant. The UAW really only wanted to add to their membership numbers and collect dues from our plant, not resolve any particular problem we were having.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 08:37      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm tossed about it.

As I see it, unions /have/ served a critical role in ending many workplace abuses, and delivering real rights to employees.

The catch: They did all of this decades ago.

It /feels/ like unions today are getting complacent, and as ideas above suggest, primarily out to get their share.

OTOH, speaking as a salaried employee who doesn't get paid overtime, and deals with arbitrary nonsense...I can probably see some pros to certain union rules. Meh.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2010 10:26      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ The stories I have heard about the abuses of power that happened in the plants, were appalling. That was 1935, Now there are safety laws wage and hour laws and many more avenues of resort.

____ However some times an employer just doesn't get it, there is a Hospital near Flint Mi. that is trying the same things that the bosses at GM did back in 1935 and at this point it may get ugly. I agree that a good company will not let a boss run ammuck but sometimes things happen quotas must be met, Money Made, Profits above all. I have seen bosses that would make Scott Adams satire seem tame.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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Reactor Red
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2010 06:35      Profile for Reactor Red     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Scott Adams does not draw/write a satire; his strip is a documentary!
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2010 07:58      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Scott Adams writes a good strip, but is no where near as bad as industry.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2010 10:50      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Reactor Red:
Scott Adams does not draw/write a satire; his strip is a documentary!

Hmmmm. I sort of agree, I think most places have PHB's and catberts walking the corridors. But that doesn't mean that they are in control, I have worked at companies where these types of people are kept in check by the sane.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2010 13:29      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
____ Scott Adams writes a good strip, but is no where near as bad as industry.

One place I worked, the managers nickname was 'pointy' for obvious reasons.

One day, in a meeting, pointy asked a workmate of mine a question, my workmate replied with a stream of technobabble that Dilbert had used to confuse the PHB in a recent strip. PHB paused for a couple of seconds, then said "OK, try that, keep me informed".

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 09, 2010 15:03      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am reluctant to make any blanket statements one way or the other as far as labor unions go, mainly because abuse of power goes in both directions and I do not have a sufficiently rosy view of humanity to really believe that, if the unions disappeared overnight, everything would still be hunky-dory for workers everywhere. Nor do I believe that the labor laws in place are so universally sufficient that collective bargaining power is no longer necessary.

What MoMan said about shops getting unionized because management earned it... A while back a shockwave went through academia when, at some universities, the grad students (aka the indentured servants) decided to organize. The university I attended as an undergrad and the university I attended as a grad student were not of that number, thankfully. I say thankfully because grad students are, in general, very reluctant to rock the boat. Their futures ride largely on not pissing off their thesis advisors and department bigwigs. They expect to take lumps. They expect to be treated like dirt (for example, we were paid for 20 hours/week and if we worked less than 60 we were taken to task for being lazy). In return, they get educated. Moreover, organizing grad students is like herding cats. I have no idea what kind of abuse these unionized universities were heaping upon their grad students, but it must have been truly beyond the usual, expected and accepted bullshit to get them to take such a stand.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 09, 2010 18:59      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Lets take it to Skilled Trades, To earn a Journeymans card from a Union. A: Complete a course of study in Math, (Trig) Physics (Vectors) My trade Metalergy, and industrial materials Lutes and Cements. These courses are usually taught at a local Junior College that has such a program. Then 7328 paid hours on the job, no time and one half here just straight hours Pay is figured from department of Labor rules. Then the Apprentice/Journeyman test that must be passed to get ones card. In a union shop you work for one year at top appentice wage then bump up to Journeyman.

____ Now do you want to check the credentials, on that Electrician, Plumber, Furnaceman before he starts work on your house.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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