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Author Topic: Grr @ M$
Zargof McBain
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Icon 8 posted April 27, 2005 12:08      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, I thought M$ couldn't do anything to annoy me any more, but it seems they've surpassed themselves this time.

We've been testing our software on Windows 2000 and have discovered a bug*. After a search on M$'s website it seems they know about the bug and there is a hotfix available for it. Fine you would think? Oh no, it seems the only way to obtain the hotfix is to log a support call and then they will send you the hotfix. But because we have a volume licence there is absolutely no free support available, and you have to stump up about £70 just to obtain a fix to M$'s broken code! Granted it does say that if the hotfix solves your problem you *may* be entitled to a refund, but frankly I'm not happy about taking the chance that M$ *may* decide to give me my money back.

OK so it's a relatively new hotfix which may not have been fully tested, but all they would have to do is allow it be downloaded with a caveat stating that you install it at your own risk. That would be fine.

There's no wonder Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world! Not impressed [Mad]

* In case anyone cares the actual bug occurs when you create a multicast socket on a network card with virtual IP addresses. If you try and send traffic from one of the virtual IP addresses then the source address is still the primary address on the card.

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Smile. It makes people wonder what you're thinking

Posts: 75 | From: A dark place | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jackster
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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 12:54      Profile for Jackster     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You've got two ways to solve this problem really, either just accept it that your gonna have to pay £70 every time you need an update like that... OR ...get a mac [dream about gatting a mac] [Happytears] [crazy] [Happytears] [/dream about getting a mac]

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Posts: 1 | From: Glasgow, Scotland | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 13:49      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Putting Debian GNU/Linux on there would be the less expensive, smarter choice. [Wink] Buying an XServe would be nice, though. [Big Grin]

That does suck about the patch situation, though. :-/

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9344 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zargof McBain
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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 16:10      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well the choice of other OSs was not possible as the software was written specifically for Windows.

However, I did solve it in the end, there is a phone number you can ring for product support, and they will send you hotfixes for free. The trouble is it took a couple of days to sort it rather than just ten minutes to download the patch.

Still I wouldn't get a Mac anyway as I prefer to spend my money on something that works rather than something that looks pretty...

<dangles hook> [Razz]

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Posts: 75 | From: A dark place | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 18:05      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zargof McBain:
Still I wouldn't get a Mac anyway as I prefer to spend my money on something that works rather than something that looks pretty...

<dangles hook> [Razz]

/me gets torches and pitchforks and starts handing them out while carefully avoiding the dangled hook... [devil wand] [Wink]

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Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x]

Posts: 846 | From: Chicago | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
csk

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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 18:30      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zargof McBain:
Well the choice of other OSs was not possible as the software was written specifically for Windows.

Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...

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6 weeks to go!

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 19:21      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...

Are we still talking about computers, or do you have a hot date lined up?

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10701 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
csk

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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 19:27      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...

Are we still talking about computers, or do you have a hot date lined up?
I wish [Wink]

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6 weeks to go!

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Zargof McBain
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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 23:52      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by Zargof McBain:
Well the choice of other OSs was not possible as the software was written specifically for Windows.

Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...
I doubt wine would be any use tbh as this software is very low level, down in the network device driver.

Yes I know this would have been easier to write in Linux in the first place, we have similar software that is written for Linux, and we would like to port this, but there isn't the funding available. You know it's the classic, "why do you want to spend money when it already works?

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Posts: 75 | From: A dark place | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
jordanv
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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 00:13      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Are we still talking about computers, or do you have a hot date lined up?

I wish [Wink]
Switch to rohypnol ...its much better for scoring with hot chicks.
Posts: 364 | From: a house (in Sydney) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 06:26      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by Zargof McBain:
Well the choice of other OSs was not possible as the software was written specifically for Windows.

Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...
Judging by the nature of the bug he's trying to deal with, something tells me the code he's writing might be a bit too low-level for wine to handle.

of course, I could be wrong.

Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mac D
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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 07:31      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
WINE - Wine Is Not an Emulator

I always found that one funny

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Posts: 1449 | From: Where I am is very relative to my location at that time. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 12:02      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by Zargof McBain:
Well the choice of other OSs was not possible as the software was written specifically for Windows.

Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...
Judging by the nature of the bug he's trying to deal with, something tells me the code he's writing might be a bit too low-level for wine to handle.

of course, I could be wrong.

Perhaps this (http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/) might be able to help out with that.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9344 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 12:16      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by Zargof McBain:
Well the choice of other OSs was not possible as the software was written specifically for Windows.

Wine? Doesn't always work, but worth a try...
Judging by the nature of the bug he's trying to deal with, something tells me the code he's writing might be a bit too low-level for wine to handle.

of course, I could be wrong.

Perhaps this (http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/) might be able to help out with that.
A program used to make wireless nics work in Linux with Windows drivers? :|
Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 14:59      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah...but read the second sentence:
"This project provides a linux kernel module that loads and runs Ndis (Windows network driver API) drivers supplied by the vendors."

It uses WINE & ReactOS technology to use Windows binary compatible drivers - perhaps it can run this ugly code the poster is trying to use. While it's an ugly means of working around a problem, it's a pretty damn smart idea. I believe the "Captive" driver uses similar technology, and that's downright cunning. (http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 15:10      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry to sound like Captain Obvious here, but if you're using Wine to run the Windoze network drivers, and the bug Zargof complains of is in the Windoze network drivers, how have we solved the problem?

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10701 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 19:34      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm making the [perhaps errant] assumption that the error lies mostly on the Windows side of it (seeing how he's getting a patch from M$ to fix the problem). It seems to me like he's using a very customized Windows network driver, produced by a 3rd party. Ergo, if the problem is with the Windows side of the networking, it's entirely possible that running the specialized software/code under WINE/ndiswrapper might give it a proper networking backend. For that matter, I know I'm not the only one who will say that Windows runs faster (or certainly seems to) under VMware...a feat which /shouldn't/ be likely. AFAICT, it must be a result of better memory management on the host side of things, and faster access to the HD through some better caching. Networking seems to blaze, at that. I haven't run Windows on VMware in a few years, but I know Spiderman just played with this the other day, and came to a similar conclusion.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9344 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zargof McBain
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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2005 00:29      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hmm this is an interesting thread now. [Smile]

OK I'll explain what our software does so you can stop speculating. Basically the software emulates a radio network by capturing packets of the network and adding delays, packet loss, bandwidth restrictions and other network effects. The software consists of several parts, a low level NDIS driver which captures the packets, a mid-level service which does the packet processing and a high level GUI to control the emulation parameters. All of this is tightly coupled to Windows, so would be very difficult to port without a complete rewrite. We have similar software that does run on Linux and it is much easier to work with as the kernel source is available. But trying to justify the cost of a rewrite when the software already works simply isn't going to happen.

As for running the software on Linux I'm not sure what benefits that would give, even if it is possible. So I think it will just maintain the status quo. I have the patch now, and the software is working again.

However, I have a quick look at the ndiswrapper program and it may be useful in other areas, thanks for the link.

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Posts: 75 | From: A dark place | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brother Dysk
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Icon 1 posted May 16, 2005 06:14      Profile for Brother Dysk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
WINE - Wine Is Not an Emulator

I always found that one funny

Better yet:

HURD - HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons
HIRD - HURD of Interfaces Representing Depth

[Big Grin]

Posts: 25 | From: Hong Kong | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged


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