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Author Topic: A 'Black" thing
Too Cool To Quit
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 11:04      Profile for Too Cool To Quit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by snupy:
If a group of handicapped people were given awards for achievement in a certain field and said, "This is wonderful progress for the handicapped", would anyone find fault with that??

Are you saying black people are handicapped?

[no offense meant, disclaimers and winking smiley]

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Alright now, that's the last straw, I'm calling the ass taxidermist to tell him to stop making hats in your size RIGHT NOW.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 11:09      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Cap'n, slightly OT: I recently learned that the United States is no longer trying to show itself as a "melting pot". Apparantly the new metaphor we are supposed to use is the "salad bowl". It's supposed to show how each individual retains their own culture and identity but still come together to create a beautiful new thing. What I want to know is a)Who decided it needed to be changed? b)How much did they get paid to think up this new thing? and c)Who on earth had to do that marketing campaign?

And who gets to play the croutons? Those bastards sog up real bad and lose all of their good qualities in no time in a salad! [Razz]

More on topic though, I think part of the problem people who are annoyed with this "black power" thing (at least for me), is that much of the striking down of every non-white race was done generations ago.. slavery, concentration camps, segregation, etc.

I'm not suggesting that it's all better -- it's far from it -- but we must look back on how far humans as a species have come fighting and doing away with racism. People in their teens, twenties, thirties, and even forties (for the most part) didn't commit any racist or indecent acts against anyone because of their race. They don't understand.

Much like those 20 year old black rappers out there rapping about racism. I mean, yes, I'm sure they've experienced it, but I'm also sure their 80 year old grandparents would like to slap the hell out of them because they dont "know what racism is".

I think I might be getting off-track, and perhaps even might be digging myself a hole here.

The whole point I'm making is we're all getting this, "black power" thing all over the TV, and for the most part, we don't understand why it's necessary, because most of us, for the most part, were brought up to know that a black person is black, and a white person is white, and that's where the differences end.

It's like me going, "6' tall people power!" .. I'd be looked at like I was retarded because it's not necessary.

.. I hope people understand my point, because that turned into a lot of drivel [Big Grin]

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 12:55      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
[QUOTE]I think part of the problem people who are annoyed with this "black power" thing (at least for me), is that much of the striking down of every non-white race was done generations ago.. slavery, concentration camps, segregation, etc.

<yorkshire>
Yoong peepl t'day ....
</yorkshire>

Black people my age went to segregated schools in the US.
They grew up in a society where attempting to vote was a crime punishable by death.
Where sitting in the front of the bus was a crime punishable by death.
Where using a public toilet, or drinking from the public drinking fountain was a crime punishable by death.
Where looking with desire at a white woman was a crime punishable by death.

quote:
I'm not suggesting that it's all better -- it's far from it -- but we must look back on how far humans as a species have come fighting and doing away with racism. People in their teens, twenties, thirties, and even forties (for the most part) didn't commit any racist or indecent acts against anyone because of their race. They don't understand.

I think you underestimate how deeply ingrained racism is in the US.

While travelling through Georgia, we stopped in a small country town to buy some groceries. Going up and down the aisles of the supermarket, I noticed several people staring at me strangely, but couldn't figure out why (I actually checked my fly, just in case). It wasn't until we went back out to the car, and looked up and down the street that I twigged - we were the only whites in the entire town. It was officially a blacks-only town back in the 60s, and it still is, unofficially. White folks just don't go there.

And it's not just rural Georgia where segregation lives on. In Washington DC, we had lunch in a little park full of picnic tables, there would have been 20 or more tables, about half were occupied by groups of white office workers, the rest had groups of black office workers. Not a single table was mixed race.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 13:48      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Then please forgive me ignorance, it just seems to me that in any urban setting -- where the vast majority of the population is, remember -- this sort of thing seems odd and out of the ordinary.

That, and I'm Canadian, and we (as far as I've seen) are a lot better about multiculturalism than the United States.

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ZorroTheFox
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 16:18      Profile for ZorroTheFox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
quote:
Originally posted by ZorroTheFox:
I'm still looking forward to the day I can walk up to any man of any race and know that we see each other as brothers.

I for one wouldn't be looking forward to discovering that my father was also my brother... [Eek!]

but seriously, good sentiments. This last sentence I picked out - what about women? Do you not think they are equal? I'm sure you do - but no good complaining about race when you unconsciously (I hope) sexually discriminate.

I just didn't want it to get too wordy, as if it already weren't, by trying to appease both sexes. People are people reguardless of gender or sexual orientation. I'm not sure if I can call someone my sister without having the image of Joe Dirt running through my head, but I didn't mean for my commentary to be interpreted as having a gender bias. That said, it is generally then males of the species that are the cause of most problems. I have a feeling that if the men can get along, then the women will follow suit. [Wink]
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Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 16:32      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The only problem I have with the whole "Black thing" is that it still has to exist. Prejudice or the lack thereof is taught. When parents everywhere stop teaching their children prejudice, maybe by the time their grandchildren have children, we can finally and correctly say their is one human race.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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supergoo

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 15:35      Profile for supergoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I think you underestimate how deeply ingrained racism is in the US.

I go to a public school in NC which is about 60% white but is basically voluntarily segregated. Whites and Asians on one side, Blacks and Mexicans ("Mexican" being a general term for anyone from central/south america) on the other side. Sure there are inter-racial friends and lovers, but people of one race mostly stick to their race. There isn't a whole lot of blatant hatred towards other races, it's just that the people in your neighborhood and the people you hang out with tend to be people of your own race. White kids go to white parties, black kids go to black parties.

Despite what people might say, there really is a stigma against black and/or hispanic students who do well academically. It isn't just from peers who might accuse a person of being "white" for doing well in school--teachers often expect less from black students, and when people expect less of you, you expect less of yourself. Even when really bright black or hispanic students do well, the general attitude is that "Oh wow, it's especially surprising that he's doing so well because he's a minority."

Of course I'd like to end racism and have race just be another feature like hair color, of course we've come a long way in making America a truly equal-opportunity place, but America is still a very racist nation, especially in the south.

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Y los sueños, sueños son.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 17:11      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by supergoo:
Even when really bright black or hispanic students do well, the general attitude is that "Oh wow, it's especially surprising that he's doing so well because he's a minority."

Story in the press recently, a school in the US which had traditionally awarded the title 'Valedictorian' to the student with the highest academic scores. For the first time, that student was a black kid, so, for the first time, they had 3 valedictorians, the black kid, and 2 white kids who'd got lower scores.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted March 03, 2005 21:41      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wasn't going to say anything, but here goes:

1) I hate that this thread carries its current title. What the hell...

2) It seems that what is being discussed is widespread bigotry, with special emphasis on the racial variety practiced in the USA

3) While the problems here (USA) are huge and not to be ignored, bigotry exists in every country and culture on this planet - much of it tied to outwardly visible, genetically carried differences that we refer to as 'race' and including skin, hair and eye color with a myriad of other things thrown in.

4) The real fascination in this subject for me comes from the "ethnic cleansings" taking place *within* the same race or culture or whatever. I'm thinking of the messes going on in Ireland, Africa, the Baltic States and Middle East *without* even mentioning other countries' involvements - the internal strife, mayhem, insurrection amoung peoples of like histories, backgrounds, traditions. What the hell?

5) I've been studying Native American culture for a while and two concepts come back again and again: Deep, abiding respect for all life and true, self-sacrificing humility. With just these two virtues intact, people can co-exist without having to resort to killing one another, or causing hatred and grief.

Let's start another thread, with a different title to continue the discussion.

Sorry for the rant. It's one of those 'touchy' topics for me. No I am not black, so no worries there.

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3753 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 11:14      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
O.K. this is in truly poor taste. But ah hell I am doin it anyway.

[evil]  -

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2472 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 12:21      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually, I think it tells the story rather succinctly, Commander. [Wink]

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 13:57      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Shroom

That isn't bad taste, that makes the point perfectly...

Like the "equal opportunity prejudice" earlier which is a bit of a retread of the UK club comedian's favourite "Prejudiced, me? I'm not prejudiced! I hate everyone regardless of their race, colour, creed, sex or sexual orientation... Yah fsckers...

[Big Grin]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 14:53      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In all honesty it wasn't my first choice. I had a "moment of clarity" and decided to go with that instead of this one. Do not click if you are sensitive to racial slurs and NSFW!!!11!!

I guess it is safe to say the clarity has left me.

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2472 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 17:25      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nope,

That one is, shall we say "iffy" (aka in poor taste). The first one is much better (although like my tired old gag they all tread the same path...

As in why can't we just "get over it" and treat skin colour/ethnic background/whatever in the same way we worry about blonde or brunette? Big breasts or small? Are brown or pink nipples more common/arrousing? Is circumcised or uncut best?

As in "LIKE, WHATEVER"

BTW - "Goodness Gracious Me..." I thought it was hilarious but possibly had too many jokes that only "middle class white viewers" would find amusing. However my friend Moses (a dual citizenship British/Malaysian with parents of Indian origin) also found it hilarious but was concerned that there were too many jokes that only a British Asian with sub continental family roots would really find amusing...

Overall when we discussed it the skits we both found funniest were also the ones we most felt the other would least "like/find amusing" - Why was that?

We decided that it was because the funniest skits were also the most scathing regarding the way people behave. And in a perverse reverse kind of PC sense he was most worried by skits where "white" attitudes were visciously "sent up" which he found very funny but was afraid might anger certain elements of WASP society and I was most worried about skits where Asian culture was lampooned (even though by other Asians) that I found hilarious but which I felt might upset some Indian/Asian people...

Overall the best skits were the ones where the stupid sterotypes from both sides were inverted and then lampooned for their own stupidity... And yes i think we both learned something from that evening's discussion - stupid is stupid - and pointing it out is FUNNY regardless of which side of the (nominal) fence you stand as long as it is done without malice...

For those of You not familiar with it - keep an eye out on the comedy channels (Kumars at No. 42 is a spin off based on a couple of characters from that show)

Sorry, gone wildly off topic...

Never mind...

It's Friday... I'll have double egg and chips with four bread rolls on the side thanks.... (see above)


[Big Grin]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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snupy
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 19:39      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Originally posted by spungo:
quote:
Yes, you're right -

Ahhh...and in front of all these witnesses [Happytears] . Glad you finally see the light(it's not like I didn't tell you enough times. [Razz] )!

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"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

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snupy
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 19:42      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Garlic Guy:

The title of this thread was not meant to be offensive. If you read it again, my post was meant to point out the ridiculousness of the phrase itself. Perhaps it was the wrong choice.

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"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 20:53      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
After I made my little rant, I realized that you, Snupy, as the originator of the thread, might think it aimed in your direction. For that I apologize, and I should have made myself clear at the time. What troubles me is when we limit this topic to one minority or another or the conflict between only two or three groups. The fact is it is a global issue and involves virtually every identifiable people group that can be named, at least on some level.

My real issue is this, (loosely phrased, but sincere): Why in this world can we not learn to respect others, all others, as equals and when are we going to grow up and quit being self-absorbed naughty little name-calling brats? Moreover, I would like to suggest that the "brain trust" here, on GC Forums, might well lend some thought to solving this problem in a real, tangible and meaningful way.

Sounds kinda 'pie-in-the-sky' now that I type it out, but that is my genuine sentiment on the topic of racism, bigotry and equality.

Ah, ... er.... I guess that was either another rant or a preach so perhaps I should add an Amen to that stream above... [Wink]

PS: I registered here while you were mostly not posting, as you're undoubtedly aware. I looked at your picture in the gallery. You are the near twin of an old friend from back in the MidWest.
FWIW

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted March 04, 2005 22:52      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As long as societies are structured hierarchically (which they almost always have been) there's going to be hatred between the haves and have-nots (or between whoever the haves consider as a threat to their dominance). Typically the haves build the society in their image and the have-nots have to assimilate or become lost in the quagmires of the hegemonic culture. Unfortunately, some societies have turned hatred into profit. One example: the USA probably wouldn't be where it is today without hundreds of years of slavery (which justified free labor based on bigotry). Some argue (can't remember the references right now) that slavery was and is all about profit and nothing more. Racism was the 'propoganda' that allowed it to continue. Of course this can easily turn into a "chicken or the egg" type of debate: did profit beget slavery or did slavery beget profit? But the tie is there regardless of the chronology. Most of the nasty stuff we do to each other (and have done throughout history) can be traced to personal or societal gain for a particular type of person or people. Intolerance and hatred are byproducts of this human, all too human behavior.

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Ed Womack
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spungo
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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2005 03:05      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by snupy:
Originally posted by spungo:
quote:
Yes, you're right -

Ahhh...and in front of all these witnesses [Happytears] . Glad you finally see the light(it's not like I didn't tell you enough times. [Razz] )!
Is it too late to recant? [Wink]

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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snupy
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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2005 11:48      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
yes. It's already framed on the wall. [Wink]

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"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

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Brother Dysk
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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2005 04:13      Profile for Brother Dysk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One thing that really bugs me is that every term that I can concivably use to describe black/dark/coloured people (ie that list) is no longer politically correct. What is?

African American. But this phrase is completely and utterly useless - I live in Asia. We don't get many black people from America here. So what, do I call them African-Asians? Africans? What if they're from the West Indies, though, or Southern India? Then they have nothing to do with Africa at all.

In short, PC is nothing but a hindrance. Let us say black, just as we say white - it isn't meant as an offence, merely as a description. "African-American" or whatever, to me, is inconvenient, and worse yet, sounds like you're trying too hard to be nice to the person, just because of their race.

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