homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums!


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums!   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Rants, Raves, Rumors!   » A 'Black" thing (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: A 'Black" thing
snupy
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1211

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 15:23      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have heard more than one person(even a friend I considered like-minded) refer to the Oscars and the big deal that was made about having 4 black nominess this year and about Jamie Foxx saying in his speech ,"Let's live this African-American dream", which prompted Oprah to stick her fist triumphantly in the air(and of course they then cut to Spike Lee, Morgan, etc). It was the same last year when Halle Berry said her award was for all the women of colour who can now break through, or something like that. People are asking, why does it always have to be a "Black thing?"

The press even asked Jamie about his comments and made him, in a way, justify them by saying he meant in the context of all the bad things going on in black culture that this was a positive thing.

My question: why are so many white people uncomfortable with this??


If you went to your high school reunion, and all the nerds who were picked on or ignored turned out to be millionaires or superstars, for example, and they all stood up and said,"Let's hear it for the nerds"-would anyone begrudge them the attention or say they were making it into "a nerd thing"?? no.

If a group of handicapped people were given awards for achievement in a certain field and said, "This is wonderful progress for the handicapped", would anyone find fault with that??


This is a nation who oppressed and owned African-Americans for years-many blacks my own age couldn't use a public bathroom or sit at the front of a bus when they were little. Why not acknowledge the fact that the entertainment industry has not always been supportive and accessible to everyone, either, and let them say, "Yes, this is a great moment for us."?


Is it the guilt we feel as whites, or is it perceived subconsciously as some threat to us? I don't get it.

Posts: 4269 | From: UK, via Chicago | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2097

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 16:05      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Snupy,

I have found some of the rigamarole over the "black" thing annoying.

Whites and black both look at the world as an us and them. Every one seems to ignore the fact that there are more races than them, like politics. And I have felt this new reaction of "PC"ness has gone too far. A black man can make fun of a white man. A white man cannot. hmm.

And then everyone can make fun of asians and middle-easterners. That is fsckd up too. No one ever seems to bother to mention that.

Blah, I hate everyone. No one is safe from my scorn. [devil wand]

edit: I am glad that blacks are now actually played by blacks. Not by some white guy in crappy makeup. And that the parts that blacks play are no longer just "Huggy Bear" characters. I just wish that people would admit we have a lot further to go. For every race.

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2475 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 16:15      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, to me America seems like a very polarised place, especially these days.

Black or White
With us, or agin us
Red state or Blue state
North or South
Rich or Poor
Pepsi or Coke [Wink]

For a country that claims to be a 'melting pot' it has a lot of work to do that is for sure.

Canada seems to do quiet well with multiculturalism, it isn't perfect but compare Toronto to LA or New York. Similar size cities but race is viewed (or not) very differently. From what I recall of visiting London 20 odd years ago ethnic groups seemed to be flourishing as well.

--------------------
(!) (T) = 8-D

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 16:41      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What's wrong with New York?! It's the backwoods you have to worry about. :-/ There are some scary close-minded people there...

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9345 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
n4dmx
Geek
Member # 3177

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 16:51      Profile for n4dmx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
Snupy,

I have found some of the rigamarole over the "black" thing annoying.

Whites and black both look at the world as an us and them. Every one seems to ignore the fact that there are more races than them, like politics. And I have felt this new reaction of "PC"ness has gone too far. A black man can make fun of a white man. A white man cannot. hmm.

And then everyone can make fun of asians and middle-easterners. That is fsckd up too. No one ever seems to bother to mention that.

Blah, I hate everyone. No one is safe from my scorn. [devil wand]

edit: I am glad that blacks are now actually played by blacks. Not by some white guy in crappy makeup. And that the parts that blacks play are no longer just "Huggy Bear" characters. I just wish that people would admit we have a lot further to go. For every race.

I completely agree with you, Commander.

The nerds, handicapped, etc. are exempt from this because these groups can contain individuals from any race. However, when a group of individuals single out an accomplishment as a victory for their entire race, it naturally arouses a feeling of exclusion from other races.

Suppose someone were to say "Let's hear it for the whites!"? [Eek!]

We ALL have a very long way to go before true racial equality is achieved, if ever. [Beard of Peter Gabriel!]

Posts: 218 | From: Georgia | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
TMBWITW,PB

Member # 1734

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 16:58      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cap'n, slightly OT: I recently learned that the United States is no longer trying to show itself as a "melting pot". Apparantly the new metaphor we are supposed to use is the "salad bowl". It's supposed to show how each individual retains their own culture and identity but still come together to create a beautiful new thing. What I want to know is a)Who decided it needed to be changed? b)How much did they get paid to think up this new thing? and c)Who on earth had to do that marketing campaign?

quote:
Is it the guilt we feel as whites, or is it perceived subconsciously as some threat to us? I don't get it.

I don't know. My guess would be that it is a little of each. We all have prejudices built into us from childhood and they can come out at strange times. After moving to Richmond, a city with a much greater minority population than my old home, I discovered some uncomfortable things about myself that I am now working on. [ohwell] Maybe a little of it is jealousy, because no one could get away with saying, "This is so great for the white people." (Why would someone feel the need to say that? I have no idea.)

And there are people who would find fault with the nerds or handicapped folks giving themselves a hand, too. The sad part is, the justification for not letting them do it sounds good. "Let's just let people be people and not separate ourselves into groups." That argument doesn't last long once people begin to look at it. There was a measure on the ballot a couple of years ago in California to keep any state agency from collecting ethnic data. On the surface it looked like it was a bid for equality, but it was overwhelmingly defeated because people realized that it could just as easily be "racial discrimination without a paper trail*."

*-Ariana Huffington, Gubernatorial debate

--------------------
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

Posts: 4010 | From: my couch | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 17:02      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The fact is, until not too long ago, black actors got to play criminals, bell-boys, peasant farmers, or domestic servants.

And things haven't changed all that much.

"Desperate Housewives" recently started playing over here. Last night we had what I'm pretty sure was the first appearance of a black person, she was a street hooker.

How many black characters in 'Friends', or 'Seinfeld' ?

The fact that actors like Halle Berry now get to play the same kind of roles whites have been playing all along is cause for celebration.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10702 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
jordanv
Assimilated
Member # 3189

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 17:19      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not every black person is African-American..

just a point I think should be made clear.

American racial politics is certainly interesting in the way everything is turned into a racial issue by the press/political figures (unfortunately in most cases correctly eg KKK highway etc).

Here in Australia it isn't so black and white (pardon the atrocious pun).

The relative youth of Australia as a nation has seen an interesting development - each stage of migration brings with it mainstream acceptance of the previous generation of migrants.

To explain:

The first proper wave of post-ww2 migration: mainly polish and other slavs of the soviet region. High levels of racism against them by the Anglo-saxon migrants(a contentious status..).

next wave - the arrival of Southern Europeans..Greeks,Italians, Albanians etc.

Here we have a situation where the slavs have been accepted by a majority as "Australian enough". The slavic migrants were in fact the most vicious racists towards the "New Australians".

Another generation passes, a new wave of migration : The Semites and Asians.

Now we have everyone ganging up on them. Note: by semites we mean mainly ethnic Lebanese, Persians and from memory Egyptians.

Every generation spews forth the same arguments against the 'New Australians' - they are vicious animals, they smell funny, they don't speak English, they live amongst themselves and they are all stealing our jobs.

Then ten years pass and all of a sudden you are taking your family out to Italian restaraunts, watching Japanese films and listening to belly dancing music and they don't seem so bad anymore.

Posts: 364 | From: a house (in Sydney) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 17:46      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Cap'n, slightly OT: I recently learned that the United States is no longer trying to show itself as a "melting pot". Apparantly the new metaphor we are supposed to use is the "salad bowl".

Now I'm confused as to the meaning of having one's 'salad tossed' Something to do with ethnic cleansing I suppose [Wink]

--------------------
(!) (T) = 8-D

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
snupy
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1211

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 18:14      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by n4dmx:

The nerds, handicapped, etc. are exempt from this because these groups can contain individuals from any race. However, when a group of individuals single out an accomplishment as a victory for their entire race, it naturally arouses a feeling of exclusion from other races.

Suppose someone were to say "Let's hear it for the whites!"? [Eek!]


I used that comparison to illustrate the similar collective experience they all share. One of exclusion and being largely ignored.

Until recently, handicapped people were limited to certain restaurants, public restrooms, and many public places until laws were in order to make them accessible, as well as making it illegal to discriminate against them. You're right-no similarity there, huh??

--------------------
"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

Posts: 4269 | From: UK, via Chicago | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ZorroTheFox
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 917

Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 18:32      Profile for ZorroTheFox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
out of curiosity, what are black called in countries outside the us. Are they african-canadian in canada, and are they african-british in the UK? Why doesn't anyone just want to be american here in america? It seems everyone in the US wants to be some kind of hyphenated-american. And don't think I'm picking on the blacks either, they have plenty of company in that respect. Asian-American, Irish-American, etc.... I'm really insulted by the lack of solidarity here in the states. If people are so insecure about being simply american, they why even bother using the word american to describe themselves. Perhaps it should be just African, Asian, Irish, or whatever place people would rather be associated with. Maybe it's because I have so many different nationalities in my bloodline that I really don't see people as different races. As far as I'm concerned we are all simply humans, and our nationality should not be used as a description of race but rather as a description of our allegiance to the country of our birth. To me, the only people who should be hyphenated are people with dual citizenship. Reguardless of our race, we were all spawned from the same origin. In the end we are all related and there really shouldn't be such drive to seperate one's self from another based simply on their roots. If the origin of man was really in africa as some scholars believe, then are not all americans technically african-american. Sure our skin might not be the same hue, but should we really be dividing ourselves into communities by appearance. I do not have the luxury of picking one of the many bloodlines that makes up my being. If I chose one then I'd be denying the others. I realize that not having a heritage to call my own probably doesn't make me qualified to rant about this but I'm tired of being labeled simply by the color of my skin and the origin of my family tree. I've dated from just about every group I can think of and I haven't noticed much difference in the races. FYI, I've found the South East Asian girls to be the most pleasant and easiest to get along with, but that's another story. If a few whites are threatened by the success of a few blacks then that's just too bad. Obviously they haven't evolved yet, but that's something that may never go away. Racism and bigotry will never go away. Whether it be physical differences or religious ones, hatred will be fully exorcised from this planet without killing off those who that that keep the hatred alive. Black thing, white thing, it's all insignificant to me. I'm still looking forward to the day I can walk up to any man of any race and know that we see each other as brothers.
Posts: 3046 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
jordanv
Assimilated
Member # 3189

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 18:40      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ZorroTheFox:
I'm still looking forward to the day I can walk up to any man of any race and know that we see each other as brothers.

I for one wouldn't be looking forward to discovering that my father was also my brother... [Eek!]

but seriously, good sentiments. This last sentence I picked out - what about women? Do you not think they are equal? I'm sure you do - but no good complaining about race when you unconsciously (I hope) sexually discriminate.

Posts: 364 | From: a house (in Sydney) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
magefile
Highlie
Member # 2918

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 19:43      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You used disabled folks in your example, snupy. I thought that was particularly interesting because, wel ... As a disabled person (with the caveat that I am otherwise not a minority, i.e., white suburban male), my feelings, and the feelings of most of the disabled from what I've seen, is that being singled out as "ooh, a disabled person did X" makes us somewhat uncomfortable. It draws a distinction - is it supposed to be *more* impressive because I was *disabled*?

I've been told at times by well-meaning people that one or another of my accomplishments is particularly impressive given my disability. At times, this makes sense, but most of the time, it only serves to remind me that, yes, I am *different*, and there are still people who fall all along the spectrum from not noticing or caring, to noticing but attempting to act like they don't (which is better than nothing) to outright prejudice. Even if I have overcome some obstacle, well, we all have crap to deal with, this just happens to be my particular issue.

At least, that's my take on it. It doesn't apply to all disabled people (I can think of several exceptions right now), but it does apply to most.

quote:
If a group of handicapped people were given awards for achievement in a certain field and said, "This is wonderful progress for the handicapped", would anyone find fault with that??
So ... yes. There's a good chance I and many others would. It's one thing if it's a measure like high political office (first ___ president shows that America accepts ____ people). But for other measures, I would likely roll my eyes and sigh.

--------------------
Let them be stupid - the market will sort it out.

Posts: 743 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
ewomack
Highlie
Member # 3225

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 20:33      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TV likes to reinforce stereotypes. So when the "black thing" speech happened at the Oscars the network leapt into stereotype mode; this reinforced to all the whites safe in their homes that this wasn't something for "them" but for those "other people". In one way that episode, especially how it was produced and portrayed, put a gulf between the whites watching and the blacks celebrating on screen. It was a mini-segregation, a reiteration of the "other", almost as though a producer said "Ok, let them have their moment and then we'll get back to the status quo". This is the crap that still exists in the US mainstream. And it's everywhere. We're still being segregated in very subtle (not to mention the unsubtle) ways.

My city (I live in the northern United States) is EXTREMELY segregated. Shockingly so. When I travel to places like St. Louis or Kansas City I'm always struck by how many black people I see. In my city I see almost NONE whatsoever. It's really sad. De facto segregation is alive and well where I live not to mention in the airwaves coming into my very segregated condo.

So why can we not make fun of blacks but we can make fun of others? The 1960s pretty much defined that - the civil rights movement more or less shouted "we are human beings: stop portraying us as babbling fools". We're still in the shadow of that, and a balance hasn't been found (it's hard to take some 200 years of imbalance and turn it around in a few decades). Spike Lee's "Bamboozled" explores this subject extremely well. There's a lot of history on this subject, and without some knowledge of it it's easy to think PCism is "too rigid" (though in some ways it is, true). For many many years the US mainstream pretty much spewed offensive hatred for black people. North America was an apartheid. I think it was a lot worse than many today realize (though I didn't live through it either). Check out some of the history at this site: http://www.ferris.edu/news/jimcrow/

--------------------
Ed Womack
Get Milked

Posts: 735 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
snupy
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1211

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 20:50      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
>>>It was a mini-segregation, a reiteration of the "other", almost as though a producer said "Ok, let them have their moment and then we'll get back to the status quo".


Very good point-I couldn't quite put that into words.

--------------------
"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

Posts: 4269 | From: UK, via Chicago | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
snupy
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1211

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 20:55      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"So ... yes. There's a good chance I and many others would. It's one thing if it's a measure like high political office (first ___ president shows that America accepts ____ people). But for other measures, I would likely roll my eyes and sigh."


I see your point, magefile, however, what I said was, if the people themselves pointed it out as an achievement for their particular group, NOT other people. That would be condescending and comparable to the white stars saying, "Oh, how nice for the African-Americans".

That is certainly not what I said or meant.

--------------------
"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

Posts: 4269 | From: UK, via Chicago | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 21:03      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
magefile: Rock on, man! I have recently gotten pissed off at such prejudice lately. I was really annoyed by someone with a very thick point of view who just "doesn't get it." Both times such things have come up I have argued it tooth and nail with her, as I'm blown away by this mindset of 'disability.' Having one disability does not turn a person into a blob of flesh and blood that can't do anything.

One thing we argued about was keyboards. Long story short, when it came up about a keyboard for a blind person, she held that it must be a 'different' keyboard, /naturally/ with extra dimples or other stuff to help with typing. I called Bullsh*t big time on that - pointing out that a blind person would be a natural touch-typist, and be completely able to type without any extra hints (beyond the regular F&J dimples [also unnecessary, but nice.]) I pointed out that I am a touch typist, and never look at the keys, so why would a blind person be any different. Hell, when I make typos, as I did in the previous sentence, mid-composition, as well as in this one, I realize it mentally, and know exactly how many keys off I am (most of the time), and fix it, often without even looking at the screen. Screen readers takes care of the rest. I've subsequently worked with a few [completely] blind people computing, and guess what? I was right - of course the keyboard is no different - except for the ones who have some vision, who have very large letters on the keys. I, the lover of keyboard shortcuts, even picked up one trick from a blind person - WinKey+D for Show Desktop. I know I saw it a document ages ago, but never really saw how useful it is.

Another more recent thing between us was about someone with a mobility impairment - someone who has difficulty walking, as well as rather poor eyesight. The person was inquiring about having a simple external USB peripheral hooked up to her machine. The general consensus was that this person was just being lazy and wanted someone to do it for them, and that was definitely my take. But no.../someone/ argued that maybe she couldn't do it. Again, I called BS! I've worked with this person before, and know she's far from incapable. To say she can't take something out of the box, and plug it in, just doesn't sit right with me. I don't even buy the potential argument that she might not be able to do the installer, because I imagine she's using her computer without too much difficulty for the most part, and it should just be a matter of clicking "Yes" a bunch of times. *sigh*

I like to say that I am "Equal Opportunity Prejudiced." [Smile] I don't care what race, creed, nationality, ethnicity, religious, ancestry, etc. that you 'are'/have - if you're pointedly ignorant, refusing to use your brain, and opening your mind to possibilties outside your preconceived notions of the world, then I reserve the right to have nothing to do with you, mock you, greatly dislike/despise you, and/or anything else determined at a later date and time. [Big Grin]

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9345 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Spiderman

Solid Nitrozanium Superfan!
Member # 1609

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 28, 2005 21:09      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
...I like to say that I am "Equal Opportunity Prejudiced." [Smile] I don't care what race, creed, nationality, ethnicity, religious, ancestry, etc. that you 'are'/have - if you're pointedly ignorant, refusing to use your brain, and opening your mind to possibilties outside your preconceived notions of the world, then I reserve the right to have nothing to do with you, mock you, greatly dislike/despise you, and/or anything else determined at a later date and time. [Big Grin]

/me nominates dragonman97 for "Best Post" award [Smile]

Very well said. [thumbsup]

Edit: Removed additional content due to the fact I couldn't figure what I was trying to say due to the current half-asleep state of my brain as you'll probably notice by this lovely run-on sentence that probably makes even less sense than what I originally set out to say which as I mentioned, I decided to give up on... [Wink] [Razz]

--------------------
Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x]

Posts: 846 | From: Chicago | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
spungo
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1089

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 02:59      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
How many black characters in 'Friends', or 'Seinfeld' ?

The fact that actors like Halle Berry now get to play the same kind of roles whites have been playing all along is cause for celebration.

Ah - but... her role in Monster's Ball was specifically for a black woman - that was part of the story, so you could argue that it isn't progress until such a role exists such that the race of the actress isn't pertinent to the plot.

Folks who make movies/TV shows have it tough - they often get accused of tokenism when they do feature a diverse cast. What about LoTR - that was a dodgy one - the only non-white actors were the orcs - i.e. the baddies - but it was supposed to be an ancient northern Europe - difficult to see how you could make it otherwise without fiddling with the story.

--------------------
Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6530 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
csk

Member # 1941

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 03:23      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
What about LoTR - that was a dodgy one - the only non-white actors were the orcs - i.e. the baddies - but it was supposed to be an ancient northern Europe - difficult to see how you could make it otherwise without fiddling with the story.

Plus LOTR makes a lot of the light=good, dark=evil thing in it's worldview(which sprung from Tolkien's Christian world view, no doubt). Since it's a fantasy world, that's probably OK, I'm sure that Tolkien wasn't making any racial illusions to the real world. Incidentally, wasn't the Haradrim driver in ROTK dark skinned, too (but also a baddie, obviously)?

Anyway, I'd like to see a world where what race someone is is treated with the same level of importance as their natural hair colour. That's going to involve change in nearly everyone's viewpoints, since the policitical correctness rebuff against the mistreatment of certain races in the past has way overcompensated(balance is good, but things have overbalanced, in some ways). It's like that skit by some comedian, where someone's trying to discreetly point out someone in a crowd and describing every characteristic except that he's black.

--------------------
6 weeks to go!

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
spungo
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1089

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 03:42      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
It's like that skit by some comedian, where someone's trying to discreetly point out someone in a crowd and describing every characteristic except that he's black.

There's a fantastic show called "Goodness Gracious Me" (one of my all-time faves) that pokes fun at such things - like the chap who proudly insists that everything from Western culture is, in fact, Indian.

"Superman? Indian! Cheap suit, bad glasses - Indian! Runs faster than a train - where else but India can you run faster than the trains? Holds down two jobs - Indian! All superheroes are Indian! Batman, Spiderman, Catman . . ."

--------------------
Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6530 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
magefile
Highlie
Member # 2918

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 06:18      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While snupy is right in that I'm talking about external recognition of some achievement, internal recognition is very similar, because it sends the message that such recognition is OK or even desired, and thus encourages external recognition.

I second Spidey's nomination of dman for best post/phrase: "Equal Opportunity Prejudice".

--------------------
Let them be stupid - the market will sort it out.

Posts: 743 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 07:21      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:

Anyway, I'd like to see a world where what race someone is is treated with the same level of importance as their natural hair colour. That's going to involve change in nearly everyone's viewpoints, since the policitical correctness rebuff against the mistreatment of certain races in the past has way overcompensated(balance is good, but things have overbalanced, in some ways).

Read some LeGuin. Most of her people are not white, and while she mades that choice vry deliberately she doesn't really make a big deal about it beyond character descriptions in her writing...most of the time. In one of her books the white people are kept as slaves.

This is why I refused to watch the bastardization of the Earthsea Trilogy the Scifi channel put together. I'm sorry, but Ged and most of his friends and enemies are NOT white.

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
snupy
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1211

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 07:55      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
posted by spungo:

>>Ah - but... her role in Monster's Ball was specifically for a black woman - that was part of the story, so you could argue that it isn't progress until such a role exists such that the race of the actress isn't pertinent to the plot.


I heard Morgan Freeman say that his role in Shawshank Redemption(in the book, I think) was originally white.

Posts: 4269 | From: UK, via Chicago | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
spungo
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1089

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted March 01, 2005 08:00      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by snupy:
I heard Morgan Freeman say that his role in Shawshank Redemption(in the book, I think) was originally white.

Yes, you're right - that's why the character's called 'Red'.

--------------------
Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6530 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2018 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam