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Author Topic: Jon Stewart on "birthers"
Snaggy

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Icon 7 posted July 23, 2009 11:43      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jon Stewart Eviscerates The 'Birther' Movement (VIDEO) http://tr.im/tHC3 - This is one of the funniest Stewart bits. (via @Brad_Strickland)

[Applause]

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 23, 2009 14:37      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You've gotta laugh at the bunch of tinfoil-hat nutters that the Republican Party have become, or you'd cry.

I saw a quote a few days ago, from some Faux News propagandroid, saying he "couldn't disprove" the rumour that Obama is setting up a network of concentration camps to imprison honest god-fearing Republican Americans (is that why we haven't heard from he-who-must-not-be-named recently?).

Remember folks, you heard it here first.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted July 23, 2009 16:12      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have a fear that this hysteric tendency, particularly in US politics, will only get worse in the short term.

As Google's advertising revenue rises, there has been a corresponding fall in Television and Newspaper advertising revenue. All news organisations have cut back on their news teams to the extent that you wonder if there is anyone out there who can still do original research if a big news story breaks. What would happen if a story like Watergate emerged now? Would we ever discover the truth? This degradation of traditional news sources is particularly noticeable in local news. Here in Brighton we used to have a lively local paper, the Argus which had good coverage of all local issues. Now it only really recycles press releases, and I learn more about what's happening locally from the BBC's web site.

So it seems to me that we are swapping facts for opinion, and truth for conspiracy theories, poisonous smears, and propaganda.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 00:48      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wonder how many people in that audience were sitting there wondering, WTF is going on? I wonder if any one of them said something. not mean, nice. or if they sat there and thought, this doesn't effect me.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 02:57      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_________________ Are these people the new Swift Boaters? _________________

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 04:33      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
_________________ Are these people the new Swift Boaters? _________________

I thought that the "swiftboaters" acknowledged what they were engaged in subterfuge after the election. These peopel tried it before teh election, and don't seem to know that B. Obama will be our president for at least the next 4.5 years.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 05:02      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
These people aren't Swift Boaters. They're worse. They're racists. As far as they're concerned, a black (even semi-black) man cannot be a natural born citizen of the United States.

If they thought otherwise, they would have been protesting just as heavily against McCain during the election since he was born in Panama.

Neither candidate was born in the United States, but the only one they protested against is the one who isn't white. That's not a coincidence.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 08:37      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hawaii was a state when Obama was born. True, it's not one of the contiguous 48, but it's still the US and has been for quite some time.

One of my labmates is a citizen by birth but spent most of his childhood overseas. He likes to say he could be the first US president who speaks English as a second language. I told him he's waaay too nice to ever get elected.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 11:06      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I shouldn't post when I'm half asleep :-/

What I meant to say was "Even if neither candidate had been born in the United States, the only one they protested against is the one who isn't white."

While I didn't express it correctly, the sentiment is the same. You can raise just as many questions about McCain's eligbility for the office as you can about Obama's, but the protesters only questioned Obama's eligibility before the election.

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Snaggy

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Icon 2 posted July 24, 2009 12:00      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The whole "natural born citizen" requirement for USA President seems completely stupid, as it discriminates against clones, Superman, and those born of body-snatcher pods.
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Zwilnik

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 12:42      Profile for Zwilnik   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Snaggy:
The whole "natural born citizen" requirement for USA President seems completely stupid, as it discriminates against clones, Superman, and those born of body-snatcher pods.

It also discriminates against the only electable Republican, Governor Terminator. It's also a bit against the whole idea of being American if somehow you've got to prove your family's lived there since they were English colonists.

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The most important of which is the element of surprise.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 12:52      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually, you just have to prove you were born here. The rest of your family can frak itself as far as the law is concerned. It's the idiot racist conspiracy theorists who don't understand that.

It was written that way from the start because the original authors of the Constitution feared we'd elect a president who was a cat's paw for a foreign government. The idea was that someone who'd been here since birth would have unquestionable loyalty. This is a bit unfair to naturalized citizens, seeing as you have to go through a huge rigamarole and a loyalty oath to become a citizen by any process other than birth. If your heart weren't in the game, you wouldn't make it through.

It is interesting that no one was questioning Obama's citizenship when he ran for the Illinois legislature or the US Senate. [Roll Eyes]

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 24, 2009 14:43      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Actually, you just have to prove you were born here. The rest of your family can frak itself as far as the law is concerned. It's the idiot racist conspiracy theorists who don't understand that.

You don't even have to be born in the USA, as the grumpy one pointed out above, McCain was born outside the USA, but his parents were citizens, so he is.

But then, McCain's a 'Real American', and Obama isn't, you can tell just by looking at them...

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 11:28      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This post is meant strictly to clarify some points. It should not be in any way interpreted to mean that I have anything but the utmost support for our President, for whom I voted. (I was also incensed when a raving fool I've been subjected to of late was griping about him - I left the room. [He's far too hardcore to fight - I like being alive.])

Xanthine: To be a US Senator, you "must have been a citizen of the United States for at least the past nine years." (Wikipedia) To be an Illinois State Senator, "[the] candidate must have been a United States Citizen for a minimum of two years prior to his candidacy and must have been resident of the district which he seeks to represent for one year." (Wikipedia)

TFD: About McCain - it's utterly laughable, but he was born in a very quirky location. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was "kind of, sort of" a US territory at the time. As his parents were US citizens, it gave him a nebulous claim to US citizenship, thought it's more likely that he's a "US national." Ergo, while Barack Obama is *unquestionably* American (IMHO), McCain is less so. In fact, according the the never-wrong-Wikipedia [ [Wink] ], "the U.S. Senate approved a non-binding resolution recognizing McCain's status as a natural born citizen." (Wikipedia)

If I cared about this any further, I'd look at something more authoritative than Wikipedia, but one must admit that it's an easy resource to consult. Odds are decent that the above citations are decent and mostly true. [Smile]

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 11:52      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dman, part of the birther claim is not just that Obama wasn't born here, it's that he's not even an actual citizen (because he's claiming citizenship by right of birth, and he wasn't born here). Which means he's risen very high as an illegal immigrant. Never mind he would have had to present either a birth certificate or set of naturalization papers the first time he applied for a US passport...and never mind universities and other employers enquire after people's citizenship or immigration status...

The absurdities just keep piling up. [crazy]

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 11:59      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are people still griping on this one? YAWN!! If Obama was not a citizen and was able to ascend to the presidency, then this entire country, liberals and conservatives alike, are to blame. Talk about shooting yourself in the xyphoid process... whoof!!

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 16:06      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Xanthine: Ahh...my misunderstanding - I'm not adequately informed on the positions of the yahoos. :/

Stupid question: Aren't there people in various layers of government whose very job is to check out such details? I really don't think they would have bothered to give him Secret Service protection as a candidate if they didn't think he stood a chance to be President. Similarly, I really don't think they'd give him the 'football' if they had any such doubts.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 19:38      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Stupid question: Aren't there people in various layers of government whose very job is to check out such details?

But they're all in on the conspiracy, along with the (Republican) governor of Hawaii, and the Hawaii newspapers, and the keepers of various newspaper archives throughout the world who all planted the fake birth announcements in their back-copies, and....

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 19:45      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A bit of good news

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 20:24      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Stupid question: Aren't there people in various layers of government whose very job is to check out such details? I really don't think they would have bothered to give him Secret Service protection as a candidate if they didn't think he stood a chance to be President. Similarly, I really don't think they'd give him the 'football' if they had any such doubts.

Of course d'man, the whole point of John Stewart's piece is that it is completely without any foundation. But it is indicative of two important things, first that there is a significant number of Republican supporters who are so convinced of the truth of their political ideology that they cannot accept any Democrat President as legitimate. The same people who talked after their narrow victory in the 2004 elections how the Democrats should reconcile themselves to permanent opposition.

The second thing that flows from this religious certainty is that those people are completely ruthless, they don't want to debate with the other side or do deals, because they don't accept there is any alternative view. Instead they want to destroy their opponents, and by any means necessary. For example there is that Republican senator talking about how health care will be Obama's Waterloo, how it will destroy him.

The whole "birther" thing is classic black propaganda worthy of the master of this art, Goebbells himself. The people behind this know it is nonsense, but are working on the theory that a lie gains legitimacy through constant repetition, and so long as it helps create an atmosphere of doubt and distrust around Obama, it's doing its job. That you an intelligent and educated man even thought it necessary to raise your "Stupid question" is a testament to the effectiveness of this technique. Most despicable of all are the politicians who know that this is such nonsense that they cannot overtly support it, because they will then be shot down in flames, but try with a nod and a wink to encourage the doubts. This kind of crap has been going on for a long time, the first example I can think of, being the false controversy got up about the Whitewater property deals to smear Clinton, but that does not make it any less reprehensible.

One does wonder how anyone can possibly vote Republican in these times with anything approaching a clear conscience. These people are the very lowest form of political pond life.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 20:33      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dman, speaking as a federal employee, I had to go through a whole series of background checks to start my job. Verifying my citizenship was part of that. And then I had to take a loyalty oath. And I wasn't even getting a real security clearance. Or assuming a position of power and authority. [Roll Eyes]

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 25, 2009 23:47      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipy: "Of course d'man, the whole point of John Stewart's piece is that it is completely without any foundation."

Erm...so I hadn't actually viewed said video until now. Fantastic! I'd expect nothing but the best from Jon, and that's just grand. It's also quite terrifying what a lot of nutjobs we have around. In particular, the woman who's suing about this --- ORLY?! [Big Grin]

P.S. My stupid question was largely meant to be rhetorical. ;P

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted July 28, 2009 15:10      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is an interesting companion piece to John Stewart's smack down. They are of course being ambushed, and of course you can never be sure how the video was edited, but it's still interesting how many of these people just cannot bring themselves to give an unequivocal answer about this tinfoil Loony Tunes conspiracy theory.

When it comes to expectations, no matter how low you set the bar, these guys always seem to slither under it.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 28, 2009 17:18      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Funny (particularly the "is this as fast as you can go?" bit), but not really surprising.

These people have gotten and kept their offices by winking and saying "I can't disprove that" to extremists on divisive issues while remaining non-committal enough to avoid losing support from the less extreme conservatives. If they voice a definite opinion on a question like this, the act would fall apart and they would lose a significant part of their support and eventually their position. None of them will do that willingly.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 28, 2009 17:28      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some of them are afraid of these silly people disrupting their events and so they throw them some pretty words to make 'em shut up...except by doing so they lend the idiots legitimacy.

The GOP has a lot of rethinking it needs to do if they've got to scared of freaks like these.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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