posted June 14, 2009 17:34                      

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Originally posted by Callipygous:
There is another way. We have one client... who looks for competent trustworthy suppliers that he likes personally, and seeks to build long term relationships with them...
...His methods have not been unsuccessful, he and his family are a regular feature on The Sunday Times Rich List.

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posted June 15, 2009 00:31                         

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Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
I don't have a problem with people driving a hard bargain over price (eg. the guy in the video store), that's just business, I do it myself when the occasion demands it.

It's the woman at the hairdresser ("Do the work now for free, and if I like it you might get some paying work later") and the couple in the restaurant ("we want to re-negotiate price after you've done the work") that really get up my nose.

Oh, and something the video missed, "Thanks for doing such a good job, we'll get around to paying you eventually, maybe some time next year". Some big aussie companies are notorious for doing this to small suppliers.

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posted June 15, 2009 00:49                         

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Originally posted by Callipygous:
Ash I am unsure whether you made this post to be provocative, or out of ignorance. I suspect it may be a combination of the two. However to answer you:-

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a. If something has not and cannot be budgeted for, it means that it is not important to the customer, and the project will almost always run into the sand at a later date. Never commence substantive work on anything without a purchase order. As often or not speculative work of this sort is a pet project of an individual, that has not actually been approved by the organization, and you are just playing a bit part in their office politics.

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b. Only rarely do you get any significant contract without pitching. Then if you win the pitch, you usually haggle on the price. We are all used to bargaining. That is very different to using a negotiating position that exploits or dupes the supplier, where there is no mutual respect. The supplier is always on a hiding to nothing if he accepts such terms. In particular if you are invited to do speculative work on a pilot project, even if it succeeds there will never be subsequent work to make it worthwhile for you. After all if you are so desperate, and enough of a mug to allow yourself to work for nothing, that must be your market value, and so you can't be much good at what you do. As I said before it's about mutual respect.

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When you go freelance, or start your own business, you have the advantage of not being subject to office politics, or being unexpectedly sacked, but you also accept all the risk as well as the rewards of your business, and in times such as these, those risks are significant. In a recession your customers will cut back, and try to do as much in house as possible, and any work they do give out will come after tough bargaining with reduced margins. So you are walking a financial tightrope, and there are a few ruthless types who will try to prey on your ill disguised desperation to lure you into working for nothing, using lines like those in the video. They are not the kind of person that anyone should do business with, but I suppose there must be enough inexperienced and very desperate people, for these sharks to have some limited success.

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There is another way. We have one client, a man in his seventies, who looks for competent trustworthy suppliers that he likes personally, and seeks to build long term relationships with them. He has for example had the same firm of lawyers for over 35 years. If the first job or two go well, he then tells you that he will always give you any work suitable for you that arises, he won't listen to any salesmen from your rivals, and he will not beat you down on price. In return he expects you always to give him your best price, and your best service. He is also reasonable when jobs go wrong, as occasionally happens to anyone, providing you are trying to learn from your mistake. If however he finds that you are in any way exploiting him, that's the last piece of work you'll get from him. He is also a very nice man. Unsurprisingly there are no lengths we will not go to for him. His methods have not been unsuccessful, he and his family are a regular feature on The Sunday Times Rich List.

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posted June 17, 2009 02:23                         

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In an e-mail to all its staff, the airline offered workers between one and four weeks of unpaid leave -- but with the option to work during this period. British Airways employs just more than 40,000 people in the United Kingdom.

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posted June 17, 2009 07:50                         

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Originally posted by Ashitaka:
Now this is crossing the line as far as work/ compensation goes.

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In an e-mail to all its staff, the airline offered workers between one and four weeks of unpaid leave -- but with the option to work during this period. British Airways employs just more than 40,000 people in the United Kingdom.

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the article (CNN)

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