homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums!


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums!   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Your News!   » Curiously depressing (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Curiously depressing
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted December 13, 2006 05:58            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by garlicguy:
A turbo-prop or conventional prop plane, if the engines had sufficient power, would eventually create enough lift to break gravitational pull and rise vertically in place, at which time it would continue to climb.

I am a touch confused ... How are you envisioning a propeller-driven plane? A jet engine blows gas out of the back so that the plane moves forward.

A propeller is there for exactly the same reason! It pushes the air backwards, pushing itself forwards in the process and pulling the whole plane forwards. It is this forward movement that allows the air to pass around the wings and generate lift.

I don't know what the original question meant: were they trying to say that the conveyer belt would hold the plane still? (Since that's impossible) As I read it, it was trying to trick you into believing that aircraft had driven wheels (the standard treadmill idea that forward motion is thrust against the ground, not the air, and can be counteracted), but they don't, so any plane that uses horizontal thrust will take off. Just because it's a jet aircraft instead of a propeller aircraft is irrelevant -- any aircraft that moves forwards by pushing against the air or expelling air, will take off.

A theoretical plane that used its wheels to reach take-off speed would be stuck on the ground, but then, it wouldn't fly either since there'd be nothing to keep it climbing and it wouldn't get airborne -- wind resistance would rapidly reduce it to stall speed and it would descend.

IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted December 13, 2006 06:18      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
uilleann______________________On a plane like the big C-130 or the old DC-6s the propwash over the wing would cause the landing struts to extend, So if the plane was lightly loaded and low on fuel some people thought that you could get enough air over the wing to lift the thing off of the wheels. I do not know if it was ever tried. Actually on a multi. prop plane most of the lift is developed between the outer edges of the two out board props the rest of the wing is for the weight of the cargo and fuel.

Now more questions if teflon has a coefficient of friction as low as wet ice on wet ice would an airplane equiped with blocks of teflon on the struts and taking off from a teflon runway, get off the ground quicker. (shorter distance to airspeed). I know landing would be a (#$%^) because how do you keep it in the center of the runway and then stop with out friction or very small ammounts of same.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 1200

Icon 2 posted December 13, 2006 18:25      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Let's get practical here.

1. If a jet can take off from Midway Airport in Chicago, it can take off from a treadmill.

2. How much is that freakin' treadmill going for on e-bay? And who has the manufacturer's ball bearing account?

3. Since Bush became President, have you noticed how cheap the FAA has gotten on airport facilities?

CP

--------------------
Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Danimal
Mini Geek
Member # 2016

Icon 1 posted December 15, 2006 08:23      Profile for Danimal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow. By the conveyor belt theory a sea plane would never take off since the water provides virtually no resistance to the skis like a conveyor would against wheels.

It may have already been stated here. Regardless, it's lift compliments of the Bernoulli Principle and forward motion compliments of Newtons third law.

The conveyor is completely irrelevant. So are the wheels.

Sorry if this has been covered before but sometimes it becomes impossible and/or pointless to follow the tangents that some of our more creative posters are able to come up with [Smile]

Best,

Dan

--------------------
"Corporate America (or place your country here)" is one of those weird religions that still believes in human sacrifice.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted December 15, 2006 11:57      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What if the plane is powered by a buttered-cat drive ?

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10702 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted December 16, 2006 02:17      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:

would an airplane equiped with blocks of teflon on the struts and taking off from a teflon runway, get off the ground quicker. (shorter distance to airspeed). I know landing would be a (#$%^) because how do you keep it in the center of the runway and then stop with out friction or very small ammounts of same.

You would steer the plane on the runway landing the same way you halfway streer the plane in the air. With that thing on the tail of the plane. Did you know pilots steer with thier feet on the ground. (at least in a cesna.)

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3093 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted December 16, 2006 13:18      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ashitaka_______________________Yes I did, however you have to use the rudder and the toe brakes on a tail dragger.

On non flat ground my hovercraft is a (female dog) to control as it always tries to run down hill, I took it out on the road once (crowned road) and it was very difficult to keep it out of the ditches. Driving it around our non flat yard is an exersise in vector control trying to keep the prop facing so that the craft goes where you want it to go.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2008 14:54      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, I'm necroposting. You'll live [Smile]

We debated this question here quite a bit a little over a year ago, but now it seems that we'll get a questionably authoratative answer.

The Mythbusters are going to actually stick a plane on a convor belt to see what happens.

This should be amusing

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted January 28, 2008 16:00      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm curious how they'll interpret the puzzle, as they will need to make some assumptions regarding the original question in order test it. My guess is that they'll have the treadmill moving first, but I wonder if they'll just keep the plane stationary, and say it can't, or somehow work it out with normal thrust, and say it can.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted January 28, 2008 16:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________________ No body has to solve anything the Brits already did, its called the Harrior. D##n thing can lift vertical and back up, sidewise, and forward, pull huge G forces by using vectored thrust, Sometimes the pilot passes out, hopefully he regains before the crash.

During My stint in the Navy I was aboard a Bird Farm, Carrior to you land lubbers. Usual flight deck ops occured while the ship steamed into the wind. So the pilot had wind speed and ship speed to help his take off, plus those ungodly powerful Cats that threw the airship off the bow.

Proceedure. Plane captain directs pilot to the correct Cat. Hooks up bridle to nose wheel, then dog bone to tail hook. Dog bones are sized for plane type, and load. Plane Captain checks all of the above, salutes pilot, Pilot acknowledges plane Captain and requests Cat Officer for permission to leave the ship. Cat officer grants permisson and salutes, pilot salutes, at the end of the Cat. Officers Salute the Cat crew open the big valve, the cat and the planes engines together generate enough thrust to tear the dogbone apart, the plane leaves the ship. Now some planes still do not have enough airspeed to fly so as the plain leaves the ship the pilot pushes forward to enable a shallow dive to get a little more airspeed and pull up about a half mile ahead of the ship. My job was to ride in the helo that flew along side the ship during cat operation in case a plane did not make airspeed.

The pilots were instructed to stay in their plane as the ship ran over it, Once the ship had passed it would pop back to the surface like a fishing bobber, thats when I went to work diving into the water to rescue the aircrew.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2008 16:57      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This being Mythbusters, my biggest curiousity is how they're going to justify blowing up the plane, the conveyor or both. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ugh, MightyClub
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 3112

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted January 28, 2008 19:02      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
This being Mythbusters, my biggest curiousity is how they're going to justify blowing up the plane, the conveyor or both. [Big Grin]

Justification?
"Mr. Scott, I need more power!"
"Any more and she'll blow, captain!"
/StarTrek

--------------------
Ugh!

Posts: 1758 | From: Ithaca, NY | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 06, 2008 09:13      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I decided to check back on the Mythbusters test, since I wasn't able to catch the episode at the time. The airplane took off... duh. Of course, I can see from the comments on the site that some people seem to think Mythbusters did the test wrong, since the makeshift conveyor belt didn't magically stop the plane from moving forward.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 06, 2008 11:21      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________________ Let see, I read most of the posts about Myth Busters. Now lets go back to 1903 Wilber and Orville are at Kitty Hawk. Look at the pictures No Wheels how do we bust that myth that wilber and Orville flew?

How do Ski planes fly?

How do Float planes fly?

I got a ride in a PBY (flying boat) once the take off just about shook my teeth out.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aditu
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 2340

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted February 06, 2008 14:57      Profile for Aditu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interestingly on the episode, the pilot himself didn't think he'd take off.
Posts: 1355 | From: Osten Ard | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 06, 2008 17:01      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________________ I went back and reread the comments about mythbusters. Why and how does a kite fly? No ground speed. Why do small planes need to be tied down they aren't going to take off.

I would guess then that the gliders used in D-Day didn't take off.

Speaking of gliders, if the tow plane is big enough would the glider lift-off from prop-wash or jet-blast before the tow plane built up airspeed.

Hey thats the idea for Mythbusters, use that big airplane engine and fly a glider with it, no forward motion the wheels wouldn't even turn as it lifted up.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted February 06, 2008 17:44      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aditu:
Interestingly on the episode, the pilot himself didn't think he'd take off.

Get the name of that pilot, and check it against the crew list of any plane you're about to board.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10702 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2018 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam