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Author Topic: Flag Burning.. How do you feel?
TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 17:28      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
Let's see, I remember getting three good meals a day,

Now that's proof you were brainwashed. No one gets good food in the military! [Big Grin]

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ASM65816
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Icon 12 posted June 30, 2005 17:45      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Now that's proof you were brainwashed. No one gets good food in the military! [Big Grin]
You just had to compare it to my "home cooking." [Wink]
(T-Rats were bad, tho' )

Knock, Knock.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 18:19      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
submariners get good food, and MRE's really aren't that bad... just be sure to chew the gum that comes with 'em unless you want to be backed up for a week.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Charles
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 20:31      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
quote:
Originally posted by Charles:
They do no (sic) brain wash you in boot camp.

Bullshit! Absolute Bullshit.

As a former soldier, and a a trainer in a battle school I can tell you it is all about brainwashing.....you can call it what ever you want.

BootCamp:

*You all get the same hair cut.
*You all wear the same clothes.
*You shit, sleep and eat together.
*Minimal contact with the outside world including friends and family.
*Destroying individuality.
*Sleep deprevation.
*Pushing one to the physical, emotional and mental limits.
*Stripping the individual thought from a soldier.
*Building a group of individuals who will react (as one) to commands, with out question even if it kills them.

That, my friend is brainwashing.

Oh, and as far as Iraq....yes, it is wrong.

There is no way it is brainwashing. Training and being made to learn to function as a team is what it is. When I joined the Marines I knew there was a chance I would have to do something that might get me killed. That is something you know long before you ever hit boot camp.

Some people think that if they die doing/serving a greater cause is better than just living a dieing.

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csk

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 20:46      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charles:
Some people think that if they die doing/serving a greater cause is better than just living a dieing.

So, some people choose to live/die serving a greater cause, and some people burn flags for what they believe is a greater cause. Not so different, in some ways. As long as the flag in question belongs(ed) to one of the people burning it, I really don't see the issue.

/stops before he's tempted to start posting SOAD B.Y.O.B. lyrics.

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6 weeks to go!

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Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 20:57      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
So how many deaths do you see in a typical class at Basic Training? I'll tell you (in case you don't know), none. Exercise and going three or four days without watching TV or playing video games doesn't kill people. Not killing your own people should be pretty easy to understand if you consider a quote from General George S. Patton:

(To Cap'n Vic) Of course, you were in a different army.

I saw two deaths in boot camp. One recruit drowned in the pool durring a swim qual and another had a cronic asthma attack after running 7m. My father had a recruit in his platoon that just keeled over and died durring a hygene inspection. His heart just stopped.

As for the rest, I dont know what branch you were in but I wasn't allowed to even think about a TV for 4 months god forbid a video game. It is also about the mental training as well. Everything we learn is to save lives. To save the lives of the marine to the left and right and to the immediate obideance to orders. I could say so much more but in a sence it is a form of brain washing. But it is more of a learning period. There is a specific way to do everything in the marine corps and there are reasons behind that.

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Charles
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 20:58      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Burning your country's flag shows a huge amount of disrespect for it. The same county that you use to your advantage when it suits you. Police, Fire, EMS, Judicial, Education etc.

If you feel so strongly against the country you live in that you need to burn the flag, you should consider moving.

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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted June 30, 2005 21:00      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There's an excellent examination of the techniques that all armies use to indoctrinate recruits, from the TV series War by Gwynne Dyer. Well worth a look if you can find it. The book War has recently been re-released too.

btw, it was shot on location at the United States Marine Corps Parris Island Training Depot in South Carolina.

Anybody's Son Will Do

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Charles
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 21:05      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If it is brainwashing I would not have been able to say I do not agree with the reasons we went to Iraq as a member of the USMC.
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csk

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 21:05      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charles:
Burning your country's flag shows a huge amount of disrespect for it. The same county that you use to your advantage when it suits you. Police, Fire, EMS, Judicial, Education etc.

If you feel so strongly against the country you live in that you need to burn the flag, you should consider moving.

If you don't like it, get out, rather than work to change the system from the inside. If that's the case, why are we in there "helping" out Iraq, all those unhappy indivuals in there should just move out if they don't like the country.

Sorry. That logic doesn't fly with me. If one starts beating up individuals who burn flags, then that swings dangerously close to fascism, at least in my book.

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Charles
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 21:07      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You should work to change it from the inside. Burning the flag does not change things. Instead it splits people into two groups the "Hell yea let it burn it group", and the "OMG they are burning the flag"
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csk

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 21:13      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charles:
You should work to change it from the inside. Burning the flag does not change things. Instead it splits people into two groups the "Hell yea let it burn it group", and the "OMG they are burning the flag"

It's making a statement. And a more powerful statement than expressing similar sentiments in words, since it is obviously attracting strong reactions. Once again, it's OK to disagree, it's OK to disagree strongly. But once physical violence results, that's crossing the line.

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6 weeks to go!

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Charles
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 21:15      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I never said anything about violence, that is the other Marine guy.

I have said that you should have the right to burn the flag, but it is not something that people should do.

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ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted June 30, 2005 21:16      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is topic Utterly deplorable in forum Your News! at The Geek Culture Forums.
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB (Member # 1734) on May 18, 2005, 14:38:
 
Guys, no one is going to win this, and even if someone did, no one would be happy. Let's just shut up now.

Ha! Stole your line !!! [Razz]
(if this contines, I will post essays, despite both sides not listening to opposing viewpoints.)

BTW:
quote:
A: Knock, Knock.
B: Who's there?
A: man
B: man who

WHO(1)         BSD General Commands Manual         WHO(1)

NAME
    who
-- display who is on the system

SYNOPSIS
    who [-HmqsTu] [am I]
[file]

DESCRIPTION
    The who utility displays information about currently logged in users. By default, this includes the login name, tty name, date and time of login and remote hostname if not local.

[evil]   [evil]   [evil]



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maia
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 21:39      Profile for maia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

If bull3t did seek to start sh*t by starting this thread, we have certainly given him plenty of satisfaction.

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Nothing is too petty to be thoroughly discussed.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2005 22:29      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maia:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

If bull3t did seek to start sh*t by starting this thread, we have certainly given him plenty of satisfaction.
I tried, didn't I?

/me goes to bed...feeling the failure...

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 02:21      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I disagree with the above two posts. Although people clearly have strong feelings on this subject, the debate has been fair and even tempered without personal abuse.

quote:
Originally posted by Charles:
Burning your country's flag shows a huge amount of disrespect for it. The same county that you use to your advantage when it suits you. Police, Fire, EMS, Judicial, Education etc.

If you feel so strongly against the country you live in that you need to burn the flag, you should consider moving.

This argument is uncomfortably close to saying that if you love your country you should not criticise it. But perhaps I misunderstand you, as I still cannot understand why a piece of coloured cloth has this primitive totemic power for most of you. You Americans seem to need religion in one form or another more than the rest of us.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 04:59      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Blame it on Francis Scott Key. [Wink]
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Charles
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 09:47      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
I disagree with the above two posts. Although people clearly have strong feelings on this subject, the debate has been fair and even tempered without personal abuse.

quote:
Originally posted by Charles:
Burning your country's flag shows a huge amount of disrespect for it. The same county that you use to your advantage when it suits you. Police, Fire, EMS, Judicial, Education etc.

If you feel so strongly against the country you live in that you need to burn the flag, you should consider moving.

This argument is uncomfortably close to saying that if you love your country you should not criticise it. But perhaps I misunderstand you, as I still cannot understand why a piece of coloured cloth has this primitive totemic power for most of you. You Americans seem to need religion in one form or another more than the rest of us.
Critisize all you want that is more than fine. If there is something that needs to be changed by all means try to change it. I never said do not try to change it.

I did say:
You should work to change it from the inside. Burning the flag does not change things. Instead it splits people into two groups the "Hell yea let it burn it group", and the "OMG they are burning the flag"

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Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 10:57      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I dont see a, "I'm gonna kick your ass!" group. Which of the two do I fall into then?
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 11:38      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
Originally posted by maia:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

If bull3t did seek to start sh*t by starting this thread, we have certainly given him plenty of satisfaction.
I tried, didn't I?

/me goes to bed...feeling the failure...

I don't think bull3t got what he was expecting though. No one so far has come out in support of an anti-flag-burning amendment. The strongest statements we've gotten so far fall into either (paraphrased):

1. You can do it but you shouldn't.
2. You can do it but it would be unwise to do it around me.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Charles
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 18:11      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jace Raven:
I dont see a, "I'm gonna kick your ass!" group. Which of the two do I fall into then?

You are in the group that is the police van going to jail for being dumb and acting outside the law.
They do have the right to burn the flag, you do not have the right to hurt anyone.
[ohwell]

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 18:36      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
...and the hamster wheel continues to spin...
[crazy]

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Ed Womack
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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted July 01, 2005 18:48      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What we need here is a good  -
[Wink]

--------------------
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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bull3t
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Icon 1 posted July 05, 2005 12:22      Profile for bull3t     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
Originally posted by maia:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

If bull3t did seek to start sh*t by starting this thread, we have certainly given him plenty of satisfaction.
I tried, didn't I?

/me goes to bed...feeling the failure...

I don't think bull3t got what he was expecting though. No one so far has come out in support of an anti-flag-burning amendment. The strongest statements we've gotten so far fall into either (paraphrased):

1. You can do it but you shouldn't.
2. You can do it but it would be unwise to do it around me.

god i love this forum. i wasn't trying to start shit, or get crazy reactions out of people. i was, however trying to pose a question that people don't put alot of thought into: do we (americans) truly have the rights and freedoms given to us by our consititution?

i love some of the reactions i got, tho. jeez. but yeah.. keep em comin!

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GC's Mosthated.
"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it."
-William S Burroughs

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