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Author Topic: Corruption of democracy in the US
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 14:50      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just a day or so after Jimmy Carter aired his misgivings over the election process in Florida, I heard another very disturbing report on Radio 4 here in the UK how gerrymandering is subverting congressional elections, and often turning a seat in congress into a job for life.

The US must address these issues if we are to take seriously its mission to spread democracy around the world. Let's try spreading it to Texas first.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 15:22      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You wouldn't be writing this if you were living in the USA!

At least, if you did you would not have a job next week.

I won't go into the "secret arrests" that aren't reported in the press. It's getting very bad over here.

Gotta, go, there's a knock on the door. Homeland Security.

Colonel Panic

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 17:06      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
You wouldn't be writing this if you were living in the USA!

Living outside the USA is no guarantee of safety either.

Currently Australia (which has no death penalty) won't extradite anyone at risk of the death penalty. The word is that the aussie government is about to change the law, so that aussies can be sent to face the death penalty before one of GWB's infamous 'military commissions', where the kind of 'secret intelligence reports' that told us Saddam had WMDs is admissable as evidence.

You've gotta do these things to defend Freedom and Justice. [shake head]

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 17:36      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've got this horrible feeling in the pit of my stomache that tells me Shrub in gonna win the election (either straight up or fraudulently like 2000).

His walnut sized brain will interpret a win validating everything he has done in the past four years.

It makes me wonder which country will top the axis of eeeevil list in 2005. Syria? Iran? A random Korea?

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 17:47      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
I've got this horrible feeling in the pit of my stomache that tells me Shrub in gonna win the election (either straight up or fraudulently like 2000).

Aaaugh! Don't stay stuff like that. *shudder*

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 18:15      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
It makes me wonder which country will top the axis of eeeevil list in 2005. Syria? Iran? A random Korea?

Rumor has it it will be British Columbia. George WMD Bush can't wrap his brain around that concept.

"Is it British? Is it Columbia? Cocaine? Tea? Do they speak 'British' or Spanish or 'Columbianese?'"

The so-called mind of King George is perplexed and what it can't understand it attacks.

Colonel Panic

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 18:24      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not far from the truth Colonel.

The US administration is on us pretty hard about relaxing laws and/or decriminalising soft drugs like pot and hash. To top it of BC is a major producer and hugs the US border [Eek!]

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 18:45      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sadly, this isn't anything new. It's been going on since the country was founded. But it seems to be one of the Republican's favorite dirty tricks (among their many). It went on a lot during the '60's too to keep Democratic civil rights canadates from being able to gain too much power.
It's interesting that I haven't seen or heard any national news reports over here about this story.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 18:51      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
Not far from the truth Colonel.

The US administration is on us pretty hard about relaxing laws and/or decriminalising soft drugs like pot and hash. To top it of BC is a major producer and hugs the US border [Eek!]

Hmm...I forgot about Canada when considering ways in which drugs might enter the US. It must be that *good impression* I have of Canada which keeps me from believing anything bad happens up there [Wink] . Why do I expect to here that George wants to to^Hake a quick trip from BC to DC? [Razz]

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 19:02      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Exactly dman. There is smaggling of drugs, people and guns into the US via Canada. The bad guys know that we are pretty slack compared to US law makers if the get caught. Plus sharing the largest unmanned border helps too.

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MTB Babe
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Icon 3 posted September 28, 2004 19:45      Profile for MTB Babe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have to admit that I am guilty of smuggling illegal substances into the country from Canada. I buy sunblock that contains mexoryl, which hasn't been approved by the FDA in the U.S. *hears the FBI pounding at the door*

[devil wand]

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Michael Bolton: Yeah, well at least your name isn't Michael Bolton.

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 21:17      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<troll>

Did someone mention BC Bud?! [Eek!]

</troll>

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get rich and you still die"


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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2004 22:37      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Gerrymandering isn't news; it's been going on ever since the word was coined in 1812 (see this Wikipedia article for more information on the term and the practice). Both Democrats and Republicans practice it, and it often leads to fights over redistricting. Texas is one recent example; so is Colorado. Not saying it's right or anything, but it's just part of life. Much of it counterbalances in the end.

And, when analyzing anything Jimmy Carter says about the election, please bear in mind that he's in the tank for Kerry. The mainstream media reported what he said without criticism, because the mainstream media is also in the tank for Kerry. Neither may be considered an "unbiased source" at this point.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 02:31      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
Gerrymandering isn't news....<snip> Both Democrats and Republicans practice it, and it often leads to fights over redistricting. ...<snip> but it's just part of life. Much of it counterbalances in the end.

the mainstream media is also in the tank for Kerry. Neither may be considered an "unbiased source" at this point.

The radio report also pointed out that both parties are equally guilty, and to me the most alarming aspect of the report was the complacent attitude displayed by many of those interviewed, that could perhaps be summed up by your remark, that "it's just part of life". No it is not. It is (or at any rate should be) a most serious crime, as it is an attempt to subvert the democratic process, and make politicians less accountable to the electorate. It should not be beyond the wit of man to set up something in the US that is equivalent to the independent Boundary Commission that we have here to settle such matters.

I am of course aware of Jimmy Carter's political beliefs, but perhaps you should listen to the message, rather than rubbish the messenger. Lastly Erbo I just cannot understand your belief (widespread amongst you radical rightwingers) that the US media is run by some liberal conspiracy. What I see of the US media that percolates to this side of the Atlantic is a definite lack of any hard edged criticism of your government. What you think of as the "liberal" media seems increasingly scared to air anything the White House might not like, while those more partisan, like Fox News and this rash of radical right wing commentators, seem to be driving the political agenda, and make no pretence at all of any balance in their coverage. You should at least give the other side a fair hearing, even if you disagree with their views.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 03:46      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear Sirs_____at the expense of sounding alarmist, I as a Vietnam Vet, I am scared, I love my country but I am afraid of my govererment. In many areas near where I live there are local militias, I have not joined one but have considered the option but I am an old man and I am afraid that I could no longer crawl through the ditches and climb trees as I once did, also I would fear that this country would not follow the Geneva Convention if it were in an other Civil War.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 05:24      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
It should not be beyond the wit of man to set up something in the US that is equivalent to the independent Boundary Commission that we have here to settle such matters.

This is the thing I find most odd about the American system, the lack of what most other English-speaking countries (and many others of course) take for granted, a non-partisan civil service who administer the law impartially.

Every level of government is overtly politicised, often with disastrous results.

There was an aussie on trial for murder in Florida a few years back, he was convicted, but the circumstances were such that the jury recommended leniency.

The judge sentenced him to death.

A couple of months later the judge came up for re-election, (that's right, they elect their judges) and his campaign ads boasted that he was "tough on crime" and had delivered more death penalties than any other judge in the state.

Call me old-fashioned if you will, but if I'm ever on trial for my life, I'd rather not be facing a judge^h^h^h^h^hpolitician who's career depends on setting that kind of record.

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knightwhosaysNI
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 06:06      Profile for knightwhosaysNI     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Canada, people, nitro and snaggy got it right the first time!
it's like america, only with universal health care and cheap perscription drugs.

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ooby
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 06:28      Profile for ooby     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While many people fear an impending civil war, there is a vast amount of evidence to suggest that a civil war will not occur.

Take a look at the last American Civil War. The cause of the war was a movement to abolish slavery. Dissenting states then seceded from the Union. These states formed their own country with an amry.

If you look at Red vs Blue states, you'll see that states with populations that are dominantly opposed to bush are primarily located in the northeast and the west coast. With the red states in the middle, they would have an advantage based on a divide-and-conquer framework.

However, for this to be acomplished, states would first have to secede from the Union. In order for that to occur, in each seceding state there would have to be an overwelming opposition to bush to such a degree that would warrent such a secession.

That degree is far from being reached. In twentieth century America, there several movements that ushered in radical political change. Such movements include women's suffrage, the civil rights movement, the anti-vietnam war movement. None of these movements, no matter how radical or violent, resulted in a civil war.

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 06:54      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by knightwhosaysNI:
Canada, people, nitro and snaggy got it right the first time!
it's like america, only with universal health care and cheap perscription drugs.

And colder, and more mosquitos, eh?

Colonel Panic

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 07:34      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
quote:
Originally posted by knightwhosaysNI:
Canada, people, nitro and snaggy got it right the first time!
it's like america, only with universal health care and cheap perscription drugs.

And colder, and more mosquitos, eh?

Colonel Panic

Better beer, no mass genocide on our part in Iraq, better music (as far as I'm concerned), Bob & Doug MacKenzie, and WAY less gun deaths than our American counterparts.

I like many Americans, but like most Americans, I hate the American government and what its done.

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Stereo

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Icon 7 posted September 29, 2004 07:41      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And may I add that Céline has her show in Las Vegas and rarely comes "home" anymore? [evil]

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 07:42      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Another reason Canada is better. [Big Grin]
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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 08:47      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
American is nothing more than a bunch of Shatner-stealing Mexico-touchers* [Razz]


*Stolen from a recent Simpsons

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 10:47      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____The red verses blue issue is not why the militias are forming it is because of percieved loss of local control, leading some to believe that they are being oppressed by the Federal Government

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2004 10:59      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
American is nothing more than a bunch of Shatner-stealing Mexico-touchers
You can have Shatner back and since your at it take Alanis Moriset and Brian Adams back as well

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