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Author Topic: Assault Weapons Ban
SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 13:30      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In 6 Days, the Assault Weapons Ban will end in America, President Bush has not made a move to renew it even though, he promised to do so in 2000.
Sign The Petitions at

Stop the NRA Save the Ban

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its been a while

Posts: 3090 | From: Boston | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 14:48      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What is more American than Americans killing Americans.....I say give everyone an assault rifle. [Razz]

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(!) (T) = 8-D

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 14:59      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
In 6 Days, the Assault Weapons Ban will end in America, President Bush has not made a move to renew it even though, he promised to do so in 2000.
Sign The Petitions at

Stop the NRA Save the Ban

Thanks for the heads up!
Posts: 1641 | From: Grand Rapids, MI | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
unclefungus
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Icon 6 posted September 07, 2004 17:26      Profile for unclefungus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I say give everyone an assault rifle.
Any one who wants an illigal weapon can get one.

It's nothingthat hasn't already happened in other countries running wild with AK's. These fully automatic weapons just make getting rid of your opponent easier than having to deal with them.
If people have such a big problem with each other, that it leads to shooting one another, they should duel it out man-to-man like an old western. Not by "bustin' caps in they' ass"

I think if every one was able to get thier hands on these weapons, then we would end up like those countries with all out access to AK's and other weapons. Am I saying ban all guns, no, but not all of them should be allowed either. I personally like to go hunting. and would not like my rifle/bow and arrow taken away.

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ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted September 07, 2004 18:15      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A "ban" stops law-abiding citizens from doing something.

It's my understanding that there's plenty of Heroin, Crack, and Cocaine to be found in the U.S. ...

Should we pass 50 more laws to make these drugs "more illegal" when there's a law that makes them illegal already?

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 18:39      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
the ban doesnt affect hunting weapons, weapons like AKs, uzis, tec-9s etc are effected. if you go hunting with those, you dont exist. ASM just stfu, this ban was originally instituted because cops were being killed by said weapons and a decrease in the use/killings has occurred. if the ban is lifted under some state laws you can carry a concealed Tec-9 legally into school. i know sensible people such as yourself dont want more cops or schools being shot up. Reagan supported this ban, maybe he was onto something.

as for law abiding citizens not being able to do what they want, if you have the need to have a M-16 in your house, you have serious issues about the size of your penis.

on the topic of drugs, maybe we should just make them legal and have the government either heavily tax it or have the government give it out to prevent problems like other civilized countries have done.

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its been a while

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 18:59      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
......if you have the need to have a M-16 in your house, you have serious issues about the size of your penis.....

That or a stash of Heroin, Crack, and Cocaine to protect [Razz]
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csk

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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 19:23      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
as for law abiding citizens not being able to do what they want, if you have the need to have a M-16 in your house, you have serious issues about the size of your penis.

Either that, or you want to see how Counterstrike plays out in real life.

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6 weeks to go!

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 19:43      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
. if the ban is lifted under some state laws you can carry a concealed Tec-9 legally into school.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the laws regarding concealed guns are quite separate and distinct from the ban on assault weapons, yes? So if they could carry assault weapons to school in a week, does that mean they can carry a handgun to school now? [Confused]

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—Miss Piggy

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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 19:59      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
one of the websites that is petitioning, mentioned that Tec-9 specifically will be allowed, i think there is a separate handgun ban in schools

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its been a while

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ASM65816
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Icon 9 posted September 07, 2004 23:19      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The concept of personal responsibility is practically dead.

"Everyone" looks for the easy way out:
- Diet Pills and Gastric-Bypass Surgery instead of sensible diet and exercise.
- Downloading Free Music (MP3's) (*cough* stealing).

Murder is not a phenomenon created by technology; it's been around for thousands of years.

A popular belief seems to be: "criminals are victims of society," as if the world gives everyone else a free ride. There are people which delight in the suffering of others and feel justified in destroying whatever they cannot own or control.

Even if someone is a threat to society for reasons beyond his control, would you allow a rabid dog to roam free in a city?

My opinion: Humans refuse to believe that they are the cause of misery in this world, and as such will blame inanimate objects and forces of nature for their suffering.

When I was in high-school, I don't remember needing signs that said "No Guns in the Classroom" to keep people from carrying firearms to school, but that was quite some time ago.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2004 23:36      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
...My opinion: Humans refuse to believe that they are the cause of misery in this world, and as such will blame inanimate objects and forces of nature for their suffering.......

So it won't make a difference to you if you are shot with a BB gun or an AK-47 since it won't be the inanimate object doing the damage?
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fishd
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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 01:39      Profile for fishd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
The concept of personal responsibility is practically dead.

Couldn't agree more...

quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
Murder is not a phenomenon created by technology; it's been around for thousands of years.

True, however, the technology of murder has become much more efficient. If murder was still an offense where the murderer had to look their victim in the eye, where they had to get up close and bludgeon or cut their victim to death, then I'd wager there would be fewer murders. Now with drive by shootings and sniper rifles the murderer can be detached from the immediate carnage and suffering and just deal with the "buzz" of the act.*

quote:
Originally posted by Bibo:
So it won't make a difference to you if you are shot with a BB gun or an AK-47 since it won't be the inanimate object doing the damage?

Personally? No. That fact someone tried to kill me is probably sufficient for me to worry about... At that point I think it's pretty moot what weapon is used, the fact is someone tried to kill me! If the gun wasn't available I'm sure some other weapon would have been used.

*I'm quite positive I'm not explaining my point properly here, and some people will think I'm either weird or dangerous. I've tried several times to explain the way I feel about this but it doesn't quite cover it. I'll keep thinking and post again if I can properly explain myself.

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--
Yeah, what he said... but funnier.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 03:08      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
My opinion: Humans refuse to believe that they are the cause of misery in this world, and as such will blame inanimate objects and forces of nature for their suffering.

This really pisses me off.

If I had a $ for every time some gun nut carefully explained to me (as if they were correcting some misconception on my part) that guns don't go wandering around by themselves killing people, I could retire to the Bahamas.

They've even made it into one of their standard phrases, "Guns don't kill people, people do".

Get this straight: We know

It's not the guns I worry about, it's the gun owners, especially the ones who feel the need to repeatedly explain the bleeding obvious.

</rant>

quote:
Originally posted by fishd:
That fact someone tried to kill me is probably sufficient for me to worry about... At that point I think it's pretty moot what weapon is used, the fact is someone tried to kill me! If the gun wasn't available I'm sure some other weapon would have been used.

Actually, probably not.

For example, comparing the murder statistics in the USA (about 42 per million) and Australia (15.1 per million), an American is about 3 times as likely to be murdered as an aussie.

Look a little closer at the figures, and you find Americans and aussies are about equally likely to be stabbed, strangled, pushed off tall buildings, and beaten to death with stuffed penguins. (aussies 12.15/million, americans 14.6/million) The big difference is in shootings, Americans (27.53/million) are about 9 times more likely to be shot than aussies (2.95/million).

So, the evidence doesn't seem to support the "if there had been no gun present, they'd have used some other weapon" theory.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 03:25      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
It's not the guns I worry about, it's the gun owners, especially the ones who feel the need to repeatedly explain the bleeding obvious.
Damn right! If you handle a gun you should pass a test to show that you aren't a moron. You need to pass a test to drive a car, which is (probably) less deadly than a gun.
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Doco

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 07:48      Profile for Doco   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:


They've even made it into one of their standard phrases, "Guns don't kill people, people do".

Get this straight: We know

It's not the guns I worry about, it's the gun owners, especially the ones who feel the need to repeatedly explain the bleeding obvious.

</rant>

The reason people keep stating that is that the "gun control freaks" seem intent on regulating guns and not using already existing laws to punish criminals. For some people it won't end until there are so many laws that everyone is a criminal, and the only thing keeping you out of jail is being friends with the cops or others in power.

One problem with the ban is that it didn't really do much because the only way to craft such a ban without affecting common sport and hunting rifles is to very narrowly define an assault weapon. This made it easy for manufacturers to create variants that are equally deadly but outside the language of the ban.

I feel that this ban is like many of the high profile things from our government - a feel good measure that doesn't really do much other than create more red-tape for a lot of people.

The United States, unlike some countries, has the right to bear arms as one of the core freedoms for a very good reason. Without having had lots of common people with muskets and rifles we would not have been able to fight and establish ourselves as a separate country when we did. This along with many other events over the last couple of hundred years has lead to guns being part of our culture.

Having lots of guns readily available and them being part of our culture may lead to more deaths as compared to other countries. It may also be that the poverty, crowding, or other issues are the cause for these differences between the countries death rates. It is overly simplistic to claim that the availability of assault weapons is the cause for the difference when there are many many other differences in our societies.

Fortunately we have not had to have our citizens fight against our government for almost 140 years but that possibility always exists. I pray that it never again comes to that, but our leaders must be kept mindful of the fact that they lead with permission from the people. Being able to use force of that kind is sort of like the cold-war equivalent of mutually assured destruction keeping the peace. The government having all the power and the people having none to very little will lead to abuse. While a stalemate with that threat of violence in the background is very ugly it is preferable to tyrants. While I don't like it that every nut case can have a weapon, I even more dislike the idea of only the "right" people being able to have weapons.

--- end of my little rambling rant.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 08:00      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:


When I was in high-school, I don't remember needing signs that said "No Guns in the Classroom" to keep people from carrying firearms to school, but that was quite some time ago.

Funny, mine had it printed in the student handbook. If you think kids aren't bringing guns to school, would you like to explain the school shootings that got so popular in the 90s (which is while I was in HS)?

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 09:46      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just wish I could get out of this country of delusional, homicidal, hypocritical and money hungry idiots. [Frown]
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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 10:07      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Look to the north, my son.

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Doco

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 10:29      Profile for Doco   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Guns in High School - that is an interesting topic, as the well publicized rampages carried out really have stoked the fires in this gun control debate.

I don't believe that putting up a sign, or having it in the handbook really is going to change if we have any more maniacs shooting up a school. It has stopped people from learning about and using guns in schools though.

My gun in school story is that I once took a very nice 12ga shotgun (with insanely fancy leather case that I hand-tooled) in to my school. Walked it right up the main hall to the office for safekeeping - not safe from being used, but safe from being stolen from my locker. Of course it was planned as we used it that day for trap shooting. Out at the edge of the football field going over the corn field we shot a bunch of clay pigeons - and a lot more were missed. It was an awesome experience - especially for those who had never shot a gun before. -- as an aside it was awesome for me to be able to show the pretty girls of the class how to properly hold the gun, swing it, and hit your target. That of course "required" me to wrap my arms around them to help. [Smile]

Back to the debate - if you want to keep bad guys from bringing guns into the school - put up bars, install metal detectors, and have cops patrolling. You'll get security. You'll also lose freedom to go to and from the school as well as spend a huge amount of money in the process. A sign or handbook only stops those who will obey the rules without being forced to obey them.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 12:06      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
Look to the north, my son.

Is admission free? I definitely would like to move up there, but for a number of reasons, can't. I once took an online questionaire about preferred immigration status, but I was seven points short of being able to do it. [cry baby]
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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 12:51      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Admission is free, yes.

You could claim refugee status on the grounds that your gov't is a terrorist nation. [Wink] You'd love it here, our ecomomy is strong, streets are safe, clean air and water.

Oh, and we have good beer too. [thumbsup]

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Allan
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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 13:03      Profile for Allan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GMx:
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
Look to the north, my son.

Is admission free? I definitely would like to move up there, but for a number of reasons, can't. I once took an online questionaire about preferred immigration status, but I was seven points short of being able to do it. [cry baby]
3 more exams and I've got points to spare [Smile]

Edit: sorry went completely off topic. Who was it that does the line about letting everyone have guns but banning ammunition [Wink]

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ASM65816
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Icon 5 posted September 08, 2004 16:33      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
maybe I'm paranoid, but has anyone considered that buying an assault weapon might put one on some government list with names like osama b.l.? (looking over shoulder cautiously)

"please allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery"

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 08, 2004 16:42      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
maybe I'm paranoid, but has anyone considered that buying an assault weapon might put one on some government list with names like osama b.l.?

I certainly hope so.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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