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Author Topic: Why are geek guys afraid of girls?
Zargof McBain
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Icon 4 posted April 19, 2005 15:28      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A couple of weeks ago a friend sent me message saying that geek guys are afraid of girls. This got me thinking about if this was true or not. Below is the reply I sent (with minor edits for typos etc.). I'd be interest to see if anyone has any comments.

quote:
OK so I fell asleep after getting in from work last night, woke up again and saw I had a new message. I would have left replying until tomorrow (technically later today..) but what you wrote about geeks being afraid of girls got me thinking, and now I know I won't be able to get back to sleep until I've written this. I'll warn you now that this will probably get long, but I hope it will give you an understanding of geeks and girls, and what you see as fear. I did think about whether to write this or just gloss over the comment with a witty rejoinder, but I wrote to you originally as I was hoping you were someone who I could have an intelligent conversation with, particularly as you claim to be be a geek. I realise that may sound like I'm questioning your veracity, but that's not my intent, it's more a question of what you see as making someone a geek, and if it is the same as my interpretation. For me being a geek has nothing to do with using Linux, or liking Star Trek or whatever, it is more about a particular mindset, an obsessive curiousity about finding out how things work.

So, onto my thoughts on girls and geeks. Bear in mind that I haven't spent too much time on this, and it is 3:30 in the morning, so it may not be perfect, but as I said I knew I wasn't going to get back to sleep until I replied to this. I guess that is one of the things about what I see as being a geek. To take something which you probably considered a throwaway comment about geeks being scared of girls and writing all this.

I don't think geeks are afraid of girls, but it is a much more complex issue than that. In general men do not understand women, I would say that is a pretty widely accepted fact. Therefore, it follows that as men, geeks also do not understand women. However, other men just accept the fact they don't understand women and don't worry about it. But with geeks they have this obsessive curiousity and try to understand women, but throughout history the finest minds have attempted this task and have always failed. Disheartened at this failure, geeks will go back to building their Beowulf cluster or reordering their comic collection.

It will be during this attempt to understand women that you will normally meet geeks, and the thing to remember is that whilst geeks tend to be very kind and caring people, as well as tremendously loyal, at this stage they have come out of their bedrooms in an attempt to satisy their curiousity, and as most geeks also lack social skills if a geek attempts to talk to you then it will probably not be very sucessful as you are a curiousity to them. Geeks do not tend to do small talk, I am not interested in the fact John and Kelly had a fight on Big Brother, but I would interested in why my WLAN card won't connect to my router (seriously, if you have any ideas about this let me know [Smile] ). The fact is to engage in a conversation with a geek you have to find a topic that interests them, and most girls just don't have similar interests to geeks.

What all this means is that as a geek guy it is very difficult to find a girl that interests them, and is also interested in them. Therefore, most geeks do not have experience in matters of the heart, which as times goes on just makes it harder and harder to find someone. Speaking from personal experience the few girls that I have been interested in have tended to be unobtainable due to a) already been snapped up by some other lucky geek and/or b) living on a different continent. Perhaps part of being a geek is being demanding, and not settling for second best, and this applies to women as well, hence, limiting the possible options further.

I suppose if I thought about this some more I could come up with some more stuff, but I think I should now be able to go back to bed and sleep.




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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 16:52      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Mr. McBain,

I don't agree that all geek guys are afraid of the women folk. Perhaps a larger amount. I do think that geeks in general are fairly straightforward individuals. Which means a lower tolerance for the games that people play. I am personally a 1,2,3 person. And relationships to me seem to be more. 1,2,59,45,3.. And that does frustrate me. So yes technology, comic collections and RPG's are easier than socializing or love.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 18:15      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I totally agree with mr shroom. The biggest downfall I've had in relationships, and the thing I've been bitched at the most about is being so black & white. Very logical, too often removing emotion from decisions.

Fortunately, I found my perfect woman, and I'm never ever letting her go. [Smile]

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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 18:49      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
I do think that geeks in general are fairly straightforward individuals. Which means a lower tolerance for the games that people play.

It also seems like the general culture encourages relationships to move way too fast for a methodical person like myself, besides the general irrational nature of the process.

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HalfVast

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Icon 7 posted April 19, 2005 19:00      Profile for HalfVast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it's kind of silly to assume that geek guys are afraid of
girls or even women.

I on the other hand am absolutely terrified of them.

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 19:18      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wouldn't say that geek guys are afraid of women, they can be just nervous around them. Speaking as one of the of course. I used to get very nervous around girls, but once i got to know them it went away, in fact I became very flirty with them, in a geeky way of course (asking my friend if she would "Get Perpendicular" with me after seeing that Hitachi video on their new hardrive thingy, now that i think about it that was a really awkward convo)
I just think once we guys know women to a certain degree (self-defined of course) our sense of nervousness goes away.
I would also like to add that geek guys are really only afraid of women if they havn't really ever been around them that much in their life
The best way to get over this is to be forced into a private school class where their are 8 people, 4 girls, 4 guys. This problem can quickly go away, just ask me [Smile]

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maia
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 19:20      Profile for maia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
BOO!  -

No, really. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be scared of us. We're pretty weird, but so are guys. I'm mainly just afraid of people in general.

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magefile
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 21:41      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think the whole geek==antisocial meme is overblown (in my experience, social behavior is only slightly less common in geek populations than in the average population as a whole), but here's my two cents.

What "fear" geek guys have of girls may simply be an extension of anti-social characteristics. That is, interaction with girls is "known" to be more difficult, thus, any social ineptness will attract more attention.

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Zim'et
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 21:44      Profile for Zim'et         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Judging from the deer-in-the-headlights looks I receive from any male I attempt to talk to at the comic book store, I would say nearly all male geeks are afraid of females. I think they may be unsure of the large things on our chests and were taught by their mothers it is always best to avoid strange and jiggly things.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:09      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Judging from the deer-in-the-headlights looks I receive from any male I attempt to talk to at the comic book store, I would say nearly all male geeks are afraid of females.
Then wouldn't your logical guess be that all guys (geek or not) are afraid of you gals... I mean, you do have "girl germs' and are from a whole 'nother planet.

Personally I think that guys aren't afraid of girls but afraid of rejection from a girl. I have no problem talking to girls, unless I have interest in them. Which, now that I am thinking about it, that is probably why friends first seems to always happen to me -- and on the occasion that I try to go about things in the "usual way," nothing ever seems to right...

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maia
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:11      Profile for maia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
yeah I totally-- mmmm.... booobs... err.. what were you saying?

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:17      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GM, you made an interesting statement there regarding fear of rejection. If the women are showing interest in the geek guys, then why are they afraid of rejection? I mean, wouldn't it be a foregone conclusion? Or are geek males enough like other males in that they like the challenge of the chase; if it comes too easily it isn't worthwhile?

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csk

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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:28      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zim'et:
Judging from the deer-in-the-headlights looks I receive from any male I attempt to talk to at the comic book store, I would say nearly all male geeks are afraid of females. I think they may be unsure of the large things on our chests and were taught by their mothers it is always best to avoid strange and jiggly things.

Actually, it's interesting. I can only speak for myself, but I'll try to do a detailed analysis.

I think it's fair to say that I've always got on well with girls, in general. During high school, I probably socialised with as many girls as I did guys. So it's not an intrinsic relation to girls thing.

However, for me, as soon as a girl falls into the "potential girlfriend", or light crush category, then I turn into a nervous wreck. Well, I did pre marriage. I'd be so nervous that I'd scare a nice girl away that I would scare any and all nice girls away. The cycle would then repeat. Eventually one of the girls I scared away became interested in me once I turned my attentions elsewhere, and you know the rest.

In a way, I'm not looking forward to divorce because one of the best things about marriage was it freed my mind from the constant mental quest to find a mate (which would involve endless analysis of any interactions of any kind with those "potential"[1] females). I'm already seeing those thought patterns returning, and I'd much rather be able to relate to females in a normal fashion, but it's going to take some work. Then there's the whole fear of rejection thing, but that's another story...

[1] To clarify, part of "potential" in my book means that it would be feasible to date them, which includes geographical proximity. Just in case any of you GC females were getting worried [Wink]

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csk

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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:35      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
GM, you made an interesting statement there regarding fear of rejection. If the women are showing interest in the geek guys, then why are they afraid of rejection? I mean, wouldn't it be a foregone conclusion? Or are geek males enough like other males in that they like the challenge of the chase; if it comes too easily it isn't worthwhile?

Well, the one girl I asked out was prompted by some hinting by her brother. It was well established that I liked her, and I was about 99% sure she'd say yes. Couldn't get a better bet than that.

Was I still nervous as heck and afraid of rejection when asking her out? You bet! It took me about an hour of smalltalk before I even plucked up the courage to ask. This is when we were living in colleges a few minutes apart and seeing each other on a daily basis anyway.

I may be more confident now than I was then, but if that's a data point to go by...

Edit: That would be "small talk", not Smalltalk. She's not that geeky.

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6 weeks to go!

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:36      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
GM, you made an interesting statement there regarding fear of rejection. If the women are showing interest in the geek guys, then why are they afraid of rejection? I mean, wouldn't it be a foregone conclusion? Or are geek males enough like other males in that they like the challenge of the chase; if it comes too easily it isn't worthwhile?

We are often too oblivious to "clues" or "shown intrest" unless we're hit over the head by a "clue by 4."

Most of us aren't intrested in the chase, but actually getting the girl... Or at least I am not. The thing I see alot, and did alot myself, was way WAY oeranaylis until I've convinced my self of two extreams "She can't be intrested" and/or "She digs me big time." By the time we next come face to face with the girl, we're so confused and worried about everything we've been overthinking that it's more fearful than if we were just meeting.

At least that how I was...

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csk

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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 22:44      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hmm, and now I'm wondering if GameMaster and myself were separated at birth. We seem very similar, at least in terms of the way we relate to the fairer sex.

Although, I have to chuckle at what I now realise was pure hypocrisy, where I would attempt (poorly) to play my cards close to my chest regarding which females I was interested in, but bemoan the fact that no females were obviously interested in me.

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6 weeks to go!

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 23:04      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
GM, you made an interesting statement there regarding fear of rejection. If the women are showing interest in the geek guys, then why are they afraid of rejection? I mean, wouldn't it be a foregone conclusion? Or are geek males enough like other males in that they like the challenge of the chase; if it comes too easily it isn't worthwhile?

Can't speak for other geeks, but I find myself a bit suspicious of girls that come on too strong. I can't help but wonder if there are ulterior motives involved.

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Zargof McBain
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2005 23:24      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Umm... you've made some interesting points, but I'm not sure if you have actually understood what I was saying. I don't think geeks are afraid of girls either I was just trying to explain why a geek guys reaction could be interpreted as fear.

I think the point about fear of rejection is very true, and I can relate to that. But also fear of the unknown, if like me you do not have much experience in matters of the heart and a girl you like says yes, it's unknown territory, where I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a control freak, and I'm normally in a situation where I know what I'm doing, so I feel I'm out of my depth. Plus I'm a perfectionist, so I don't want to get anything wrong, but when you don't know what is right it's a terrible feeling.

My original post was based on personal experience, but I also threw in a few geek cliches as well.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2005 00:14      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
Can't speak for other geeks, but I find myself a bit suspicious of girls that come on too strong. I can't help but wonder if there are ulterior motives involved.

Yes, I get that all the time too, they're only after me for my body.

</wishful-thinking>

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Hahahaha I have fallen into the whole overanalysing fizznizzle (yes, fizznizzle).

If you ever bump into me, don't smile at me, look at me, or even ignore me. I'll *know* you're interested.

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quote:
Can't speak for other geeks, but I find myself a bit suspicious of girls that come on too strong. I can't help but wonder if there are ulterior motives involved.
A girl coming on too strong? So what? IMHO, most girls and women who appear to be this way DO NOT have ulterior motives. I, for one, am confident and secure enough in myself that if someone rejects me for who I am, oh well. They weren't worth my time. What you may consider 'coming on too strong' may not mean the same thing to someone else. I'm not dissing you for your opinion, and if it seems that I am, sorry.

Guys, trust me, coming from a tech girlie girl geek, we won't bite. Not unless you want us to.
We (meaning females in general) have self-doubts and insecurities when it comes to love and romance, too.

Have confidence in yourself, and you'll be on the road to loneliness no longer. [Wink]

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2005 02:02      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You don't bite? Then your missing out on a world of fun... ;p

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Unclear_Physicist
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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2005 11:20      Profile for Unclear_Physicist     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To add a little fuel to the debate and from a personal perspective, I think that it is not only geeks who suffer from this. As any guy or gal who is relatively quiet and/or shy can feel making contact with any person, irrespective of whether it is initiating conversation with a person or asking them out for a drink, too daunting a task.

In terms of a geek though, there are almost stereotypical qualities which add to the inherent fear of "what am I going to say", "do they want me to join them", "what does he/she/they think of my personality/what I look like", etc. Fears usually possessed more in shy people than out-going people

The ways in which I think it is added to are as follows:

1) As already mentioned earlier, most geeks avoid initiating small talk, as to begin communicating with a stranger, only if necessary (giving the stereotypical view of inept social skills around people they do not know).

2) Belief that what they will have to say will be mocked and ridiculed.

3) An underlying pessimism, undoubtedly stemming from more juvenile times due to teasing and bulllying, that the people involved are not interested in what you have to say, what you look like, etc, eluding to an overall insecurity in one's outlook.

The list can be added to, though I cannot think of anything else off the top of my head.

Now, all of the above, dramatically hinder getting to know somebody new. However, when you find out that you have similar tastes and/or can engage in good conversation/discussion and begin to know the person, the first two points become obsolete.

The third one and other possible points which can be thought of, is a sting in the tail and yields fear of rejection and other insecurities which add to the butterflies when having the "hots" for someone. In a nutshell, an extra burden yielding the ability to lower an already low self esteem and an inability to brush off possible failure.

So, this is why I think geeks struggle socially and the last point, specifically hindering the process of beginning a relationship with a member of the same or opposite sex, depending on what floats your boat.

Addendum 1: Apologies for not providing relevant quotes from other peoples views, in this thread, to back up my own comments/arguments. It would have been too time consuming to be that referencial.

Addendum 2: With regards to signals, most guys in general miss out on this due to the majority of signals being sent out by body language rather than spoken word. Considering that men, in general, are terrible at interpreting body language, the want of having signals in black and white (i.e. spoken word) are a necessity.

Caveat: This is from a rather personal perspective but I think this provides more of a general scope to the underlying reasons as to some of the social struggles of geek kind. Apologies if some of my views are way off, as it can be difficult, in this context to make the distinction between personal views and a general sociological consensus.

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toobe

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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2005 14:09      Profile for toobe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'd have to say, as a geek guy, that I'm not afraid of girls... I'm afraid of people. And girls have a nasty habit of falling into that category. I'm just a really quiet, shy guy who happens to be unure of most new humans because I don't how to relate to them. If I'm interested in a girl, or even if she's just real pretty, I get even more tongue-tied. That often gets read as being afraid of girls, but that's just not the case.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2005 17:23      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
[1] To clarify, part of "potential" in my book means that it would be feasible to date them, which includes geographical proximity. Just in case any of you GC females were getting worried [Wink]

Aww, shucks! And here I was counting down the days until the soon-to-be-former mrs. csk remarried... [Wink] [Razz]

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