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Author Topic: RFID & New Car Door Locks?
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted September 18, 2011 10:25      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Okay an article in QST got my attention: New Car RFI. This article described a hams attempts to cure a noise problem with a new car. However it got me to looking at the key Fobs many of us carry and the idea that a smart phone could be used to unlock and or start many new cars.

____ I have found news stories about ( ahem crooks hacking the codes and cell numbers of some cars ) Does anyone on these boards have first hand knowledge of such events, or know of someone that this has happened to.

____ From my research it appears that the standard is 40bit encryption, is level strong enough?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

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Icon 1 posted September 19, 2011 01:03      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
From my research it appears that the standard is 40bit encryption, is level strong enough?

A 40 bit key has over 1,000,000,000,000 combinations, not unbreakable, but you'd have to **really** want to steal that car, and it's a lot more secure than old-style keys that could be 'hacked' with a bit of bent wire.

Theoretically, if the protocol is fairly dumb, you could eaves-drop on the communications between the car and the real key, and then re-play the message later when stealing the car. There are fairly easy ways to prevent play-back attacks, so it won't work unless the car maker is really lazy.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

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Icon 1 posted September 19, 2011 09:55      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So when the key is supposed to be that strong is it really or are some combinations set aside for function control?

The randomness of license plates is not really, as in some states the first few digits are set aside for county or state purposes, (MSG-xxx) in Michigan stands for the governors office and staff.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
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Icon 1 posted September 19, 2011 11:28      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Code grabbing stopped working in the late 90s. Most cars now use KeeLoq which has either 32 or 60 bit seeds. The 32 bit version is feasible to break at this point, but the 60 bit version still takes too long to break to be useful for a car thief (but the 60 bit version is also uncommon).

Note that this only gets the door unlocked. It does not start the car. RFID chipped keys use different encryption and the transmission power is too low to be easily intercepted.

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Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

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Icon 1 posted September 19, 2011 17:31      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ask David Beckham, he has had two high end cars pinched.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted September 19, 2011 18:10      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I didn't say that getting past the ignition key's RFID encryption was difficult. RFID tends to be far easier to crack because manufacturers don't put as much effort into it.

Hell, my car keys are chipped and I've already cloned them to make spares rather than pay $150 for the key blank from the manufacturer.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged


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