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Author Topic: Apple Boot Camp
Ozymandias
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Icon 5 posted May 06, 2006 19:31      Profile for Ozymandias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So this new Boot Camp thingy will let you partition and run Windows on your new Intel-based Power Mac, but does it have to be XP? Does anybody know If I'll be able to run any other version of the 'doze?

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"If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough."

-Taijutsu axiom #3

"If you get caught cheating, you're STILL not trying hard enough"

-Taijutsu axiom #4

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dragon34
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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 06:40      Profile for dragon34     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It has to be XP, specifically XP SP 2. As far as I know it will not install unless you have an XP SP2 disk. If you need to run other versions, Parallels seems to work rather well, but I can't guarantee it would work with high end games [Smile]
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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 08:34            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I still think that someone needs to port Wine to Mac OS X (presumably this would mostly entail swapping out the X11 front-end with an Aqua equivalent although the Tiger Dock now supports X11 properly).

There was an attempt to achieve this on PPC Macs using Intel emulation (making it Wineoyii (Wine is not an emulator .... oh yes it is)) but now we have Intel Macs, it seems logical to be able to use Wine on them.

Whether we'll ever get to the stage where we'll be able to run DOS games under ntvdm under Wine on a Mac, I don't know [Big Grin]

(And I hear you about Windows 2000 -- spare me XP any day!)

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 08:47      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://darwine.opendarwin.org/ -- already in the works....and I understand it may actually function. (However, it is via X11, which is a tad less elegant.)

I believe the Codeweavers folks are working on making an viable copy of this - which they'll sell in the traditional "Crossover" product line, I imagine (which contains a proprietary installer app to ease the load of certain tempermental apps).

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 09:18            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes that was the one I meant, but the site looked obsolete when I looked at it and the news system was dead. Certainly, they need some new screenshots as, apparently, Tiger's Dock gives every X11 application it's own icon (not when I tried it, but I'm told it does).

Text in Darwine also looks as ugly as sin... I'm not sure what they're up to, but your pics of HW in Wine looked far better. There's certainly nothing in the specs of X11 that requires ugliness, so hopefully one day Darwine will look elegant and offer separate Dock icons for processes. It's certainly the natural and logical conclusion that I always wished VirtualPC would take -- emulated software to run as if was native.

The other thing Darwine needs to achieve is edge window resizing, because if you look at the Notepad screenshots, the crappy Mac window resize widget covers up the lower scrollbar button! Darwine seems to lack the thoughtfulness to UI and style that goes into modern Mac software, something I hope they fix!

(Actually I had a really awesome control panel for System 7 called Church Windows that, as well as skinning, would give me full edge resize in all windows. Woo)

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 11:23      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by uilleann:
Yes that was the one I meant, but the site looked obsolete when I looked at it and the news system was dead. Certainly, they need some new screenshots as, apparently, Tiger's Dock gives every X11 application it's own icon (not when I tried it, but I'm told it does).

Whoever told you that is full of sh*t. Otherwise, I want to know how they did it. Remember that this was a project I considered tackling? Someday if I'm bored, I might take a crack at implementing this, but to date, I've not been that bored. [Razz]

They certainly need to update their screenshots and news page - I don't believe anyone involved understands how important it is to keep people informed if you want them to be interested in a project.

Also, w.r.t. WINE on Linux looking good - that's because I was using a Debian box, and all the FreeType voodoo was properly set up by APT. [Smile]

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 13:14      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

quote:

Originally posted by uilleann:
Yes that was the one I meant, but the site looked obsolete when I looked at it and the news system was dead. Certainly, they need some new screenshots as, apparently, Tiger's Dock gives every X11 application it's own icon (not when I tried it, but I'm told it does).

Whoever told you that is full of sh*t. Otherwise, I want to know how they did it. Remember that this was a project I considered tackling? Someday if I'm bored, I might take a crack at implementing this, but to date, I've not been that bored. [Razz]

FWIW, GIMP (2.2.3 - probably outdated, but it is what I have installed) manages to have it's own icon in the dock when run under 10.4.6, and it needs X11 to run. It is the only thing I have installed to test with --- terminal, Xman and Xlogo do not have icons in the dock, and I haven't had a need to install gnuplot on this machine. I would guess it is possible to make your app have a dock icon, but would need to be put there by the programmers.
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 13:17      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are you sure you're not just using Gimp.app? Gimp.app is a wrapper that launches the X11 Gimp via shell scripts, without the mess of installing it to the file system. I use it, and launching it puts a Gimp icon in the dock, but the icon is actually useless - you have to manage all the Gimp windows via the X11 dock icon. I do mostly use Exposé for that, or Cmd-`, but the fact of the matter is, the icon doesn't do squat - except disappear when you close the Gimp.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 13:54      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

Are you sure you're not just using Gimp.app?

You're right, my bad!
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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted May 07, 2006 16:43            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman -- at the time we talked about that, it could have been in excess of two years ago! [Wink] Hence the reference to Tiger and not any Mac OS X version.

I would imagine that it would be pretty easy to accomplish from the Aqua side, though. The Dock has no notion of foreground process (!) so just spawn a pseudo-process that bears the icon of the X11 app. It would be a bit trickier if you wanted its context menu to bear a window list for the process, but doable; you'd have to tap into the system more deeply. The hard work would be on the X11 side but you could probably use the source to an existing system to get ideas.

But this is what Mac-Arena said to me:
(06:20:54) fGewA: And yes, X11 apps do each get their own Dock icon.
He went to bed shortly thereafter so maybe he was mistaken somewhere, I don't know...

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Danapoppa
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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2006 06:52      Profile for Danapoppa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was intrigued by this quote from the Wine FAQ:

quote:
3.2. I want to run Wine on an Intel Mac OS X (MacIntel) system, will it work?

(Also see the previous question.) As of March, 2006, simple applications are just beginning to to run on Intel Mac OS X. It's possible in about 6 months we'll see applications running similarly to how they do on Linux or FreeBSD.

It's followed by some disclaimers about how difficult it is to implement Wine on OS X, but sounds promising.

<Edited to fix something written while half asleep that didn't really mean what I wanted it to say.>

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uilleann
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Icon 9 posted May 08, 2006 07:04            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hm.... asked him again:

(15:01:25) Dan: I meant, do standard X11 apps get their own Dock icons?
(15:02:23) fGewA: No.

Oh well. It was a nice thought while it lasted.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted May 08, 2006 10:29      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AFAIK, Boot Camp is just a bit of software to help with partitioning and burning the driver CD. The bit that does the magic is the related Firmware update, which allows the EFI to emulate BIOS (or something... I don't really get it).

So yes, you can put other things on (people have got various Linux distros and Windows Vista beta working on it). But presumably without the driver support for all the cool bits.

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Ozymandias
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Icon 1 posted May 09, 2006 07:16      Profile for Ozymandias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, I've never had a good experience with XP, and was hoping to put on Win2000 or somthing not so icky.

--------------------
"If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough."

-Taijutsu axiom #3

"If you get caught cheating, you're STILL not trying hard enough"

-Taijutsu axiom #4

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